Israel / Gaza / Lebanon / Iran War Thread

[Alextopman]

A Palestinian man is lowered into a smuggling tunnel beneath the Gaza-Egypt border, in the southern Gaza Strip, on September 11, 2013.
 

 

[Delbow]

11 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Like Russia , Like Iran , and a cast of many .

Absolutely. That's why picking sides from these feckers is fraught with difficulties.

[RJRB]

29 minutes ago, Alextopman said:

A Palestinian man is lowered into a smuggling tunnel beneath the Gaza-Egypt border, in the southern Gaza Strip, on September 11, 2013.
 

 

Not denying there are tunnels.

As I asked who gives permission for construction in Palestine or more relevant who forbids it.?

[Alextopman]

5 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Not denying there are tunnels.

As I asked who gives permission for construction in Palestine or more relevant who forbids it.?

"Smuggling tunnels".

I don't think anyone will admit to permitting them.

[peak4]

26 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Well they will certainly need construction materials in the future looking at the devastation that continues.

Who wrote in The Post Incidentally.

I'm guessing it came from here

Who Gave Hamas the Cement for Tunnels? A Jewish Journal article.

I wonder if it should be read in conjunction with other articles such as these two opinion/analysis pieces  from Haaretz? There are many others in a wide variety of journals

A Brief History of the Netanyahu-Hamas Alliance

"For 14 years, Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; the pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps the Israeli prime minister preserve his own rule"
Further into the article

"The MO of Netanyahu’s policy since his return to the Prime Minister’s Office in 2009 has and continues to be, on the one hand, bolstering the rule of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and, on the other, weakening the Palestinian Authority."

 

Another Concept Implodes: Israel Can’t Be Managed by a Criminal Defendant

Hamas as partner
Effectively, Netanyahu’s entire worldview collapsed over the course of a single day. He was convinced that he could make deals with corrupt Arab tyrants while ignoring the cornerstone of the Arab-Jewish conflict, the Palestinians. His life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he [Natanyahu] told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019.

“This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

 

It's not a recent claim
Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided 2019 Jerusalem post
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said.
Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism.
“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.
The prime minister also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

[peak4]

An article from 2014, so the tunnels were no secret to the current administration
The Long History Of The Gaza Tunnels

 

The question of who gave permission is always going to be fraught with difficulty, as the administrators of the Gaza strip have varied, with the passage of time and different policies.
No surprise they were built though, as the Israeli administrations supposedly restricted what was able to pass via official routes.

Israel Gaza blockade study calculated Palestinians' calories a Reuters report from 2012 about a 2008 policy; again many other articles available

Wikileaks has published diplomatic cables that showed Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis.
To circumvent the blockade, Palestinians have brought in tonnes of goods through smuggling tunnels dug under Gaza's border with Egypt.

 

As stated by many people far more expert than me: this didn't start last October

Edit; Just found an article which provides a bit more detail
Haaretz Exclusive | 2,279 Calories per Person: How Israel Made Sure Gaza Didn't Starve
The point of the "red lines" document was to see if this number of trucks in fact met Gaza's needs. But according to Gisha, UN data shows that the number of trucks allowed into Gaza each day often fell below this level.
COGAT, then headed by Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad, translated the government's policy of restrictions into two lists.
The long one detailed the forbidden goods that couldn't be brought into the Strip (including, for example, building materials, needles, cloth and other raw materials, cleaning and bathing supplies, books, musical instruments and processed hummus). 
The short one listed those that could be brought in. The guiding principle was that instead of the supply of goods being dictated by demand, it would be dictated by the quantities and varieties deemed necessary by COGAT.

 

 

 

Edited January 31 by peak4

[RJRB]

15 minutes ago, Alextopman said:

"Smuggling tunnels".

I don't think anyone will admit to permitting them.

I ask again .

Who controls any construction in Gaza.i.e. supply of concrete and other materials if within Palestinian territory as part of their defences .

Tunnels exiting in Egypt or Israel have been quite rightly targeted and destroyed.

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, Alextopman said:

A Palestinian man is lowered into a smuggling tunnel beneath the Gaza-Egypt border, in the southern Gaza Strip, on September 11, 2013.
 

 

Where's his hard hat ?

[RJRB]

1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Where's his hard hat ?

Not advisable to wear a high viz top though

[peak4]

23 minutes ago, RJRB said:

I ask again .

Who controls any construction in Gaza.i.e. supply of concrete and other materials if within Palestinian territory as part of their defences .

Tunnels exiting in Egypt or Israel have been quite rightly targeted and destroyed.

There's a partial answer to that in my first link in post 79 (unless posts get deleted again)

Ross described how, as a U.S. envoy, he urged Israel to allow Hamas to import cement even though he knew, at the time, that Hamas had been using cement for military purposes.

Another article from a similar time frame, which seems to fit with the intention of bolstering Hamas; Times of Israel 2014

‘Cement for rebuilding Gaza diverted to terror tunnels’

"According to the reports, some of the cement and other materials being delivered to the coastal Palestinian territory, as part of an international rebuilding effort, has been diverted to the tunnels.

Hamas has realized that the tunnels, which were used to stage attacks on Israeli military targets during the war, provide it with a psychological edge over residents of Israeli border towns in the area, Israel Radio reported in an unsourced report.

However, military sources told The Times of Israel on Friday that Hamas was being careful not to divert cement that is being supplied to the Strip for rebuilding. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity."

Edited January 31 by peak4