Seances

[Bellatrix]

25 minutes ago, redruby said:

I think the main way I differ from the out and out critics of the supernatural is that I think people should be free to believe whatever they want even if there is no scientific proof of these beliefs. Spirituality is important to some people and sometimes they are indeed happier for it.

 

 

As I said in a previous post, when we were still talking about the subject of this thread, seances and psychics:

 

On 08/10/2024 at 16:22, Bellatrix said:

Believe what you like, of course, but it's always best to do so from an informed position rather than blind faith.  But, of course, most true believers would rather continue to believe, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, than acknowledge that they're being exploited.

 

I'm sure some people aren't aware that rational explanations exist for phenomena that they refer to as 'unexplained' (some of which I've mentioned in previous posts).  I'm also sure that others' fervent belief in the supernatural causes them to reject those explanations. 

 

Similarly, I'm sure some, if not most, religious people are aware that their beliefs can lead to discrimination against and harm to those who do not share those beliefs, yet continue to embrace them because of the personal comfort they take from those beliefs themselves.

[redruby]

2 minutes ago, Bellatrix said:

 

As I said in a previous post, when we were still talking about the subject of this thread, seances and psychics:

 

 

I'm sure some people aren't aware that rational explanations exist for phenomena that they refer to as 'unexplained' (some of which I've mentioned in previous posts).  I'm also sure that others' fervent belief in the supernatural causes them to reject those explanations. 

 

Similarly, I'm sure some, if not most, religious people are aware that their beliefs can lead to discrimination against and harm to those who do not share those beliefs, yet continue to embrace them because of the personal comfort they take from those beliefs themselves.

I think most of those with a genuinely ‘fervent’ belief in the supernatural tend to be either suffering from a mental health condition of some kind or are from a cultural background which still has strong superstitious beliefs (such as witchcraft or black magic).

I think the other believers are not ‘fervent’ and are well aware of scientific explanations but still  gain something from their spiritual beliefs. I wouldn’t want to ridicule someone for that. Live and let live.

[Gormenghast]

20 hours ago, pattricia said:

Go on tell us ! Who is it ?

I would have messaged you Patty, but it tells me that I can only post one message a day.

Really don't understand this, perhaps someone can explain -

 

I've  not tried today to PM Pat before this , so its not one PM /day, to any one person.

 

But I  have PM'd another  person twice already today, so it can't be only one PM in total/day. 

 

What's going on?????   Or is it just me that doesn't understand?

[Bellatrix]

3 minutes ago, redruby said:

I think most of those with a genuinely ‘fervent’ belief in the supernatural tend to be either suffering from a mental health condition of some kind or are from a cultural background which still has strong superstitious beliefs (such as witchcraft or black magic).

I think the other believers are not ‘fervent’ and are well aware of scientific explanations but still  gain something from their spiritual beliefs. I wouldn’t want to ridicule someone for that. Live and let live.

Well, that's a rather more literal and extreme interpretation of my post than I anticipated .  Let's rephrase it: I'm sure that those who are very interested in the supernatural are less inclined to be open to more rational explanations, are therefore less inclined to seek them out, and so are less likely to know of them, and when they do so they are more inclined to reject them.  I'll add that for those who have come across those rational explanations, the 'yes, but, that doesn't account for my experience of [whatever phenomena we're talking about]' is generally the default.

 

You also need to make it clear whether you're talking about the topic of this thread - seances and psychics - or 'spiritual beliefs' in general, as you seem to be using similar terms interchangeably and not everything I've written in response is equally so. 

[lavery549@yahoo]

44 minutes ago, redruby said:

I think most of those with a genuinely ‘fervent’ belief in the supernatural tend to be either suffering from a mental health condition of some kind or are from a cultural background which still has strong superstitious beliefs (such as witchcraft or black magic).

I think the other believers are not ‘fervent’ and are well aware of scientific explanations but still  gain something from their spiritual beliefs. I wouldn’t want to ridicule someone for that. Live and let live.

Oh dear , I have to say ,I am doomed then , I am a Witch & must have a mental health problem because I do believe in the supernatural .😁

[redruby]

15 minutes ago, Bellatrix said:

Well, that's a rather more literal and extreme interpretation of my post than I anticipated .  Let's rephrase it: I'm sure that those who are very interested in the supernatural are less inclined to be open to more rational explanations, are therefore less inclined to seek them out, and so are less likely to know of them, and when they do so they are more inclined to reject them.  I'll add that for those who have come across those rational explanations, the 'yes, but, that doesn't account for my experience of [whatever phenomena we're talking about]' is generally the default.

 

You also need to make it clear whether you're talking about the topic of this thread - seances and psychics - or 'spiritual beliefs' in general, as you seem to be using similar terms interchangeably and not everything I've written in response is equally so. 

It’s all the same really though isn’t it?  It’s all beliefs in one form or another.  So it that sense I think they can all be used interchangeably.

 

With regards to being ‘literal’ in that reply, well you are entitled to take that opinion and laugh at me if you wish.  Perhaps see it as redressing the balance to some quite ludicrously literal replies that I’ve received!!

 

If people aren’t interested in scientific explanations/choose to reject them/are less inclined to believe them, then so be it.  Spiritual beliefs (or whatever kind) can be of great importance to some people and help them through difficult times.  You may not adhere to such beliefs.  I may not.  But others do and I don’t take issue with that.

[Gormenghast]

1 minute ago, lavery549@yahoo said:

Oh dear , I have to say ,I am doomed then , I am a Witch & must have a mental health problem because I do believe in the supernatural .😁

You must be a witch, because your 'spelling' is better than a lot of people on here.😐

 

btw, which witch are you?

[redruby]

3 minutes ago, lavery549@yahoo said:

Oh dear , I have to say ,I am doomed then , I am a Witch & must have a mental health problem because I do believe in the supernatural .😁

I’m not sure if that’s a serious reply but if it is that’s absolutely not what I was saying! I keep trying to stick up for people with alternative beliefs but it’s like putting up a tent in a gale!  I was only referring to people who let an interest in the supernatural overwhelm their lives in that instance.

[Padders]

Well I was on the toilet last night in "Padders Bar" and this happened.   

[Bellatrix]

9 minutes ago, redruby said:

It’s all the same really though isn’t it?  It’s all beliefs in one form or another.  So it that sense I think they can all be used interchangeably.

No, it isn't.  Beliefs aren't testable.  Faith isn't testable.  Activities and claims related to belief in supernatural phenomena can be testable, as I've mentioned above in relation to psychics' activities, claims and methods at seances.  A particular phenomenon can be examined and accounted for scientifically, as I mentioned above in relation to, for example, illusions. This is why I said in my previous post you should make it clear whether you're talking about 'spirituality' or the original subject in the title of the thread.

 

15 minutes ago, redruby said:

With regards to being ‘literal’ in that reply, well you are entitled to take that opinion and laugh at me if you wish.  Perhaps see it as redressing the balance to some quite ludicrously literal replies that I’ve received!!

I thought it was genuinely amusing, and rather interesting, that you chose the most literal meaning of the word 'fervent' and associated it with mental health and superstition.  No offence intended.

 

17 minutes ago, redruby said:

If people aren’t interested in scientific explanations/choose to reject them/are less inclined to believe them, then so be it.  Spiritual beliefs (or whatever kind) can be of great importance to some people and help them through difficult times.  You may not adhere to such beliefs.  I may not.  But others do and I don’t take issue with that.

As I've said three times now: people can, of course, believe what they want, and reject or accept whatever explanations they like for supernatural phenomena.  The information is out there; do with it what you want.  Ignoring it or rejecting it, however, doesn't make those explanations any less valid. I'll refer you to my previous post for my comments on spirituality.