When did you start believing in your Religion?

[harvey19]

I agree entirely, in my view being religious is just an overly complicated and illogical way of saying 'I fear death'.

 

You are entitled to your viewpoint but that is only your view and not mine.

[flamingjimmy]

You are entitled to your viewpoint but that is only your view and not mine.

 

Indeed, do you feel the need to say that after every post on this forum which contains a viewpoint that you do not share?

 

If not why am I a special case?

[DragonofAna]

Simple, it's the fear of death. Believers need to be reassured that death of the body isn't the the complete end, and that there is somewhere else our souls go. They also want to think that this place is a happy place. Most religions are based on this.

 

Many preachers then claim to have the 'authority' to promise you that this will happen if you follow their doctrines. Cue fanaticism and bigotry .

 

Throughout history many tyrants have claimed that their actions were 'the will of God'. Oliver Cromwell is a prime example.

 

Bold - course it is a fear of death. Or at least that is what you want believers in gods to fear. I do not know of many who fear death being the end of the physical. Nothing is lost.

 

I am not afraid of dying and I do like to think there is something - though god knows what - after death. We have creativity - an imagination - an active learning intellect for a reason. Perhaps we are all just bits of some great collective like the Borg - in a spiritual sense.

 

But I can accept that there may be nothing after death, even though I do not believe it. Bigotry and fanaticism would exist even without religion, either brought about by colour of skin or greed or envy - but it would still exist - as would other crimes people so enjoy associating with religion.

 

There are many many religious people out in the world who have no ill will towards anyone. They are just interested in following their own lives and their own beliefs.

 

Cue the anti-religious bigots and atheist fanatics...

[flamingjimmy]

Actually science does rely on faith - faith that the rules are correct - which works fine until someone comes along and proves they are incorrect, and then it is faith that relies on the new rules being correct ...

It's not really faith though, 'that the rules are correct' is a hypothesis that scientists most definitely do not take on faith, every single experiment they ever do is a test of this principle. The very idea of science is experimentation and modification of ideas.

 

You don't need faith that the rules of gravity actually are true, because every day scientist all over the world are making observations which confirm it, and almost as often people are running experiments that test it.

 

I don't see how you can view that as faith without taking a silly 'we can't ever really know anything' line in which case you are taking it on faith alone that the rest of the world exists, all you really can know is that you think, therefore you are, the rest is faith.

 

But that is a silly line to take, you wouldn't say you have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow, you know it will.

 

nd if you ask me what caused the big bang - I would respond with "Have not got a clue".

 

My deity has nothing at all to do with any big bang or creation theory. It is unimportant to me how things came to be. What is important is where things are going.

 

So what point were you trying to prove by demanding that bonzo tell you where life came from and how the universe started?

[flamingjimmy]

Cue the anti-religious bigots and atheist fanatics...

 

What qualifies someone as an 'atheist fanatic' and by what standard are you any less of a 'fanatic'?

[DragonofAna]

It's not really faith though, 'that the rules are correct' is a hypothesis that scientists most definitely do not take on faith, every single experiment they ever do is a test of this principle. The very idea of science is experimentation and modification of ideas.

 

You don't need faith that the rules of gravity actually are true, because every day scientist all over the world are making observations which confirm it, and almost as often people are running experiments that test it.

 

I don't see how you can view that as faith without taking a silly 'we can't ever really know anything' line in which case you are taking it on faith alone that the rest of the world exists, all you really can know is that you think, therefore you are, the rest is faith.

 

But that is a silly line to take, you wouldn't say you have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow, you know it will.

 

 

 

So what point were you trying to prove by demanding that bonzo tell you where life came from and how the universe started?

 

It was in response to a post where he asked a similar question of someone who believed in god and because they could not answer made what I considered a derogatory comment (which it may not have been but that is how it read to me).

 

And your explanation of science without faith does not impress me - as it has not when you have used it before. Whichever way you look at it you have to have faith those calculations are correct. You have to have faith in the understanding of those who make the rules. You have to have faith in an accepted system. And you have to have faith that tomorrow the sun will rise as it is not a guarenteed certainty.

 

Having faith in deity also means I can leave the pointless questions such as the origins of life to others while I get on with questions I consider more important. I do not care if we started off as blobs in a chemical soup. It will not affect me on my journey through life. Nor will knowing if my great great great great great grandfather was a chimpanzee. What is important is tomorrow, and hopefully the hogfather will ensure that the sun rises.

[DragonofAna]

What qualifies someone as an 'atheist fanatic' and by what standard are you any less of a 'fanatic'?

 

I am extremely fanatical about my beliefs - but they are my beliefs, and I do not care whether other people believe or not.

[flamingjimmy]

And your explanation of science without faith does not impress me - as it has not when you have used it before. Whichever way you look at it you have to have faith those calculations are correct.

No we don't we can and do test them constantly.

You have to have faith in the understanding of those who make the rules.

No we don't, we can and do test them constantly.

 

Can you please tell me one specific thing that you think I have to take on faith?

 

Thus far you've been very vague saying things like 'calculations' and 'other people's understanding'. Please can you give an example?

 

Having faith in deity also means I can leave the pointless questions such as the origins of life to others while I get on with questions I consider more important. I do not care if we started off as blobs in a chemical soup. It will not affect me on my journey through life. Nor will knowing if my great great great great great grandfather was a chimpanzee.

Well thankfully for the entire human race there are others who think these questions are kind of important. And thanks to them our understanding of evolution has led to countless medical advances that have saved thousands if not millions of lives.

[flamingjimmy]

I am extremely fanatical about my beliefs - but they are my beliefs, and I do not care whether other people believe or not.

 

So you do consider yourself a fanatic?

 

Which begs the question why were you using it as an insult?

[DragonofAna]

Can you please tell me one specific thing that you think I have to take on faith?

 

Nope. Could but you probably would not get it.

 

Well thankfully for the entire human race there are others who think these questions are kind of important. And thanks to them our understanding of evolution has led to countless medical advances that have saved thousands if not millions of lives.

 

Which medical advances would those be - specifically - that have saved thousands of lives and are as a direct result of our understanding of evolution?