Is torture ever justified?

[downtroad]

Personally i am not talking about Gitmo. There is very little done at gitmo that can be called torture... some things but not much, not yet anyway.

 

The problem of course lies in the fact that many real terrorists will be set free, because they have been tortured. While the US just made torture classified under the Geneva convension legal, the supream court in a few year will find it un-constitutional and anybody imprisoned will be released.

[Zamo]

If the courts are 100% sure ie DNA. Thats good enough. WASTE EM !

Not someone else who thinks DNA 100% proves someone is guilty of a crime!

 

DNA might prove sex took place but doesn't prove rape.

 

DNA might prove someone touched a kid but doesn't prove abuse.

 

DNA might link someone to the scene of a terrorist attack but doesn't prove they committed a terrorist act.

 

Think about it.

[Heyesey]

what about the victims of sick evil peadophiles? they suffer much of what you have posted too, aswell as the flashbacks and lifetime of depression. Anyone who can put children through the things that they do deserves to be in that damp dark cell getting electrocuted,sodomised and beaten for the duration of their entire lives.

so sometimes yes i think torture is very much acceptable

 

 

I'm confused here.

 

 

If abusing people is so evil ... how come you think it's okay to abuse people?

[Darbees]

Most of the posts here are talking of torture as a means of extracting confessions or of controlling the masses of which I don't approve. However I do wonder whether there are instances where somebody is convicted of a particularly heinous crime such as Ian Huntley or the moors murderers and then witholds information about the circumstances or where a body is hidden etc. In those cases maybe a little extra persuasion would settle the minds of the victims and their families. Please put yourelves in their situations before shooting me down.

[Heyesey]

No i get your point, but you know the general populous of England and America. The people going to normal (not your snake charming, Wako kind of places) were pretty normal. And they were generally moral people

 

 

Er, no, they weren't. Go do a poll and see how many people would support hanging; go read this very thread, and see how many people would support tortue in certain cases. The West does not have, and never has had, any sort of moral high ground whatsoever. Not in England, not in America, not anywhere.

[downtroad]

Er, no, they weren't. Go do a poll and see how many people would support hanging; go read this very thread, and see how many people would support tortue in certain cases. The West does not have, and never has had, any sort of moral high ground whatsoever. Not in England, not in America, not anywhere.

 

You are correct.

 

The vast majority of forumers support torture, i cannot argue with that.

 

We are no better than them, Germans under Hitler etc.

[downtroad]

So i can tick of 4 signes of a facist state using this thread alone.

 

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

 

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

 

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

 

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread

domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

 

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

 

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

 

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

 

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

 

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

 

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

 

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

 

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

 

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

 

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[Heyesey]

Most of the posts here are talking of torture as a means of extracting confessions or of controlling the masses of which I don't approve. However I do wonder whether there are instances where somebody is convicted of a particularly heinous crime such as Ian Huntley or the moors murderers and then witholds information about the circumstances or where a body is hidden etc. In those cases maybe a little extra persuasion would settle the minds of the victims and their families. Please put yourelves in their situations before shooting me down.

 

Well I'll ask again.

 

 

The very reason we feel so strongly about people like Huntley, Hindley, and their ilk, is because committing acts of that nature - murder, torture, wilful violence - are abhorrent to us.

 

 

And yet .... you want to commit acts of that nature. You want to torture people.

 

 

How can you not see the logical fallacy here?

[Chris_Sleeps]

Revenge is an ugly emotion.

[Darbees]

Well I'll ask again.

 

 

The very reason we feel so strongly about people like Huntley, Hindley, and their ilk, is because committing acts of that nature - murder, torture, wilful violence - are abhorrent to us.

 

 

And yet .... you want to commit acts of that nature. You want to torture people.

 

 

How can you not see the logical fallacy here?

A hypothesis actually. I didn't suggest it was for revenge either.