Kthebean Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 And how many Americans do you think are like this? I've been over there plenty, worked with a lot of people, and they aren't like that. Try not to be too easily led by the gutter press. I agree - try not to confuse 'the americans as a nation' with 'the americans in government and international business'...plus america is hard to talk about as a nation as such - liberal californians for example might be closer in nature and ideals to swedes than they are to conservative texans.... Back to the topic - you've asked two different questions - 'do you agree with torture' and 'is torture ever justified' - which do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rip_dime Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Saddam Hussein's life, and his government's national security, DID depend on torture. I guess he was justified in torturing all those people after all. live by the sword die by the sword the fact of the mate is most if not all governments use black ops and torture that us little people don't/ will never know about and no matter what anyones says it won't make a difference because it works, i for one would not mind tourture if it stopped another 9/11, 7/7, lockerbie etc etc someone needs to step off the horse of height Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datal Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 As Bush & Blair both said after 9/11 "the gloves are off"...... It's made them both disliked by some but they can't put those gloves back on now..... the world has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriessix Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Words of wisdom artisan. We were supposed to be sending our brave men and women to fight the war in Iraq, to save them from this kind of behaviour. And the result is our societies except the same behaviour we were liberating the people of Iraq from. We have changed so much in such a short time. We would not even be talking about this just a few years ago. But now, its mainstream?! Why has this war changed us? Where does this end? How far will we let this go? GO TO THE PUB!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSparkle Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 And how many Americans do you think are like this? I've been over there plenty, worked with a lot of people, and they aren't like that. Try not to be too easily led by the gutter press. As always, it doesn't matter what the 'ordinary man in the street' thinks - it's what the loonies in power think that matters. But if, as I've heard, the majority of Americans still think their government attacked Iraq because of 9/11 links, if the Americans aren't mad, then they're DUMB - got to be one or the other. Not sure which is worse. And it would be quite difficult for me to be led by the gutter press, seeing as I don't read it StarSparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSparkle Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 live by the sword die by the sword the fact of the mate is most if not all governments use black ops and torture that us little people don't/ will never know about That doesn't make it right. And governments doing it on the sly is a completely different situation from having such behaviour legalised by changing the country's laws. That really is a step into barbarity, and it's horrendous to think a so-called civilised nation, that likes to think of itself as leader of the 'free world', would make such a move. Very sad - not surprising, but very sad. StarSparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartfarst Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 But if, as I've heard, the majority of Americans still think their government attacked Iraq because of 9/11 links, if the Americans aren't mad, then they're DUMB - got to be one or the other. Not sure which is worse. And it would be quite difficult for me to be led by the gutter press, seeing as I don't read it If you don't read the gutter press, how do you come across - and believe - claims such as the one in your first sentence above? There are plenty of thick Americans, but take a drive round the Manor, Arbourthorne, Pitsmoor, Low Edges, Parsons Cross etc and you'll see that we have plenty of thick people over here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSparkle Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 If you don't read the gutter press, how do you come across - and believe - claims such as the one in your first sentence above? There are plenty of thick Americans, but take a drive round the Manor, Arbourthorne, Pitsmoor, Low Edges, Parsons Cross etc and you'll see that we have plenty of thick people over here too. I wasn't in any way suggesting that America has a monopoly of stupid people - clearly it doesn't - but Americans do have a long-standing reputation of being very ignorant of anything that exists or occurs outside their own borders. That should be a matter of great concern to the rest of the world, considering the vast power and influence over all our destinies that the US has. I'm still not sure what reading the gutter press or not reading the gutter press has to do with forming a person's opinion of Americans? Must be some secret known only to Bartfarst? StarSparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Mariachi Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Who do they think they are? StarSparkle Gods New "Chosen" people. in Gods New "Chosen" land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Mariachi Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 They didn't vote for 'the end of the world is nigh', they voted very sensibly for a more right-wing approach to running their country - something we should take a lesson from. Well funny how in British politics everyone is clamoring for the supposed centre ground. That doesn't leave anyone on the right, except perhaps the BNP ? Is THAT the lesson you take from them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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