Wheres all the RnB gone??

[discodown]

Problem with you discodown you have taken this very personal because if i have stated something to debate about you will find in the archives its true. Does the truth really hurt that you have to attack me. It took you a few posts to load your ammunition.

Took me a few posts because i was at work all day friday and have no internet access there. Its not as though I read your furious little diatribe then thought carefully about it. You don't interest me enough that i need to worry about you.

Point 1)

Your arrogance is breathtaking and your contradictory statements require a little thought.

 

Not once have i said anything of being the voice of reason. I replied to a post about R&B and the stereotypes and attitude it brings. As I have been playing for nearly 20 years I have played in clubs around the country and seen a lot of excellent R&B nights. I have also seen the downside also but to target a scene as pure attitude and gangsters poisonous pen writing in my view.

You may not have said it but its apparent from your egotistical ranting that you regard yourself as the voice of authority on music and anybody who disagrees with you is - in your opinion - worthless. Also you've been on the scene for 3 million years, seen everything, done everything we get it.

Point 2)

 

The point you made is exactly the same as I stated. SOUL is just a word because the singers represented were from church gospel spiritual choirs etc.

I am glad you have educated yourselves on the old skool artists. I bet you dont have any records by them?

The way you go about this forum you sound like you are anti R&B but that is my opinion I just feel you do not say anything constructive but slate it.

Firstly i have plenty of cd's and records by these artists. I also like northern soul and am passionate about soul and black american music. I'm not anti R&B in the slightest. I don't like every bit of it because i feel its formulaic and much of it is too samey samey. I do however like Angie Stone, MJB, TLC, Faith Evans and a couple of artists. The reason i'm not constructive is because its not my scene. If you can find a post i've made that is anti R&B lets see it.

Point 3)

 

Did you want me to state all the bloody singers, I did mention Sam Cooke and Aretha franklyn, but yet again you never read you just take out the bits you want to use against me like a redneck newspaper from 60's Alabama. Why would I want to ignore these other singers as they are massive. I could mention more but this post is about WHERE HAS ALL THE R&B GONE IN SHEFFIELD. Something that you could not give 2 ****s about.

No but the statement you made stated 3 artists were R&B. If you feel I was unfair I apologise.

 

Again, with the assumptions. How do you know I don't care about the scene? I went to quality at brown street more than once and i was upset when it finished. I think its important that sheffield has a vibrant scene reflecting all music. Just because i don't like it doesn't mean i think it shouldn't exist.

Point 4)

 

Disco and RNB

I refer you to listen to a record by Blaze (do you remember house) In the states, people do not categorize music as intensely like in the UK. Serious Intention - You dont know, was one of the first house tracks to come out of NY / NJ. However this was classed as a club track as the house terminology word was not known in New York. In the 80's djs would play R&B tracks back to back with early house tracks as it was appreciated with any soul crowd.

I tell you what, as I am a arrogant man, when Farley is in the country next, which I predict in Xmas. I will bring him down to your open decks night and he will tell you some knowledge as you feel nobody else can give you knowledge as you know it all.

I love that record! Blaze are, in my opinion, far superior to MAW. At the time you refer to NY/NJ was in the grip of Garage. Since Frankie Knuckles version of disco hadn't spread by then Larry Levan and Tony Humphries were the DJ's at the time who were playing what is now known as 'Garage'. This basically meant anything danceable from disco, to hip hop and had few limits, encompassing tracks from artists as diverse as Talk Talk and Yoko Ono.

 

What open deck night? I don't have one.

 

You know Farley? Have a Cookie. I will happily listen to anybody who wishes to talk about music what i won't put up with is someone not respecting my opinions but expecting me to respect theirs.

Point 5)

 

What are you going on about aggression. It seems to me if any one is aggressive it is you. You are the one that has launched the assault. I am not aggressive person however you do strike me as a person proper up your own arse and you try to find arguements in fields you have no true understandings of. I bet you was not even into soul music in the 70's. So how can you have any realistic or social understanding.

I have had my say now hopefully we can talk about why there is no upfront R&B nights in Sheffield, something that you could not give a toss about..

Firstly i'm not up my own or anybody elses arses. Secondly i was born in 1975 so for once you are correct i wasn't into soul in the 70's. Is this where you go on about how i can't know anything because i wasn't there? in that case anybody under the age of 60 who owns a motown record should have it taken off them because 'they weren't there, they don't understand'. Stop being pretentious. I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

 

And again with the assumptions. How do you know?

Point 6)

 

Which i feel is a very important point is this. you can educate yourself on all the books in the world. Unless you have lived through the decades and seen how music has evolved around your area, from soul / r&b - disco - house - hip hop, then you can say you understand it. In the 70's & 80's black people were still getting turned away from sheffield clubs that played this music based on the colour of skin and nothing else. I even know of cases in the 90's in 2000 but I wont name and shame but I am sure people reading this will know what i am talking about. Which makes me go back to the point about stereotypes that bobby posted. That is why I responded to him like that. Even to this day there is a lot of frustration within the black and ethnic minorities in the UK. This is more of a social issue, however how many times I have heard the same old cliches in clubbing. You would have thought we have come a long way since the 70's but I think we as a clubbing nation has gone backwards as I feel it is very segregated in certain areas. Only difference is loads of money pumped into it thats all. Have a think about it as I do not think it as ever crossed your mind. Promoters / djs doing R&B nights in inner cities have the hardest job in the world. That is pleasing the manager.

Pretty much agree with you. And to get back to the point I don't know why there are no good R&B nights. I can make a few educated guesses though and most of them are centered around the fact that a tiny minority spoil it for the rest.

[dj4321]

Here is my last response to you because we both must be boring every one on the net. We can bitch and attack each other all day but the fact still remains there is no REAL R&B nights in Sheffield of high profile.

 

Point 1)

You don't interest me enough that i need to worry about you

 

I obviously do interest you because you keep intruding every time I make a point about things that have not concerned you. As you seem to know it all about RACE RELATIONS and the difference between stereotypes and racism. Like you would know because if you would have been a victim, you would know what i am talking about...

 

 

Point 2)

 

apparent from your egotistical ranting that you regard yourself as the voice of authority on music and anybody who disagrees with you is - in your opinion - worthless

 

I think the pot is calling the kettle black here. How many times have you done the same thing. I have never been the voice of authority or claimed it.

 

Point 3)

 

Also you've been on the scene for 3 million years, seen everything, done everything we get it

 

I have been on the for 17 years professionally, Who is the sarcastic one here.

Never said I have done everything although you can nickname me Teddy Sherringham because I am still playing in the premiership. joke by the way, do not take it too heart.

 

Garage was taken from the legendary club name Paradise Garage. New Yorkers still refer to most dance music as club music. I did live there for two years.

 

Point 4)

 

I love cookies but what does this mean. The reason why I do not respect your opinion is because you have caused a pointless arguement. Soul vs R&B, nu soul, old skool, same thing but difference in technology. So what is your point. Most of your disco artists always have R&B backgrounds. Big Deal. Why do you think a lot of hip hop and R&B artist sample and bring back old skool cuts. Because these are the cuts r what they grew up listening to.

 

I give you one thing you can be gracious at times.

[discodown]

Here is my last response to you because we both must be boring every one on the net.

I'll bet we're not boring anyone! Its rare that someone will argue their corner like this. Also i'll bet this isn't your last response because you're liking the argumant as much as me!

We can bitch and attack each other all day but the fact still remains there is no REAL R&B nights in Sheffield of high profile.

Thats true and it is a shame. Contrary to what you might like to think, I do care that decent (for want of a better term even though i don't like using it!) R&B isn't really represented. However if you've been in the game for as long as you have and have the contacts and knowledge you obviously do (from posts you made on other threads I think you either DJ'd or promoted quality) why can't YOU do something about it? I Don't mean this as a sarcastic comment i'm genuinely interested.

Point 1)

You don't interest me enough that i need to worry about you

 

I obviously do interest you because you keep intruding every time I make a point about things that have not concerned you. As you seem to know it all about RACE RELATIONS and the difference between stereotypes and racism. Like you would know because if you would have been a victim, you would know what i am talking about...

An unfortunate word to use. I'm not intruding, this is a public forum I can say anything I want (within reason) about anything posted on here. I've also never mentioned race about anything. You try to throw it into the argument occasionally and I deliberately ignore it. The debate is about music and nothing else.

Point 2)

 

apparent from your egotistical ranting that you regard yourself as the voice of authority on music and anybody who disagrees with you is - in your opinion - worthless

 

I think the pot is calling the kettle black here. How many times have you done the same thing. I have never been the voice of authority or claimed it.

Never;) I'm good and sweet and kind!

 

The way you responded to my initial post was totally in my opinion over the top. you accused me of many things and hysterically implied I knew nothing about music. Then when I respond in kind you still won't acknowledge the fact that i'm entitled to my opinion or responded to my original point and explained why you think i'm wrong and given reasons for your response.

Point 3)

 

Also you've been on the scene for 3 million years, seen everything, done everything we get it

 

I have been on the for 17 years professionally, Who is the sarcastic one here.

Never said I have done everything although you can nickname me Teddy Sherringham because I am still playing in the premiership. joke by the way, do not take it too heart.

 

Garage was taken from the legendary club name Paradise Garage. New Yorkers still refer to most dance music as club music. I did live there for two years.

It was indeed but i think i'm right in saying - and feel free to correct me - that there was an album entitled "From the Paradise Garage" released and that was the catalyst because people shortened the name to the "Garage Album"

 

I hope to have some sort of DJ career lasting that long! More power to you for not becoming jaded or even worse greedy and cynical.

Point 4)

 

I love cookies but what does this mean .

Name dropping is not cool!

The reason why I do not respect your opinion is because you have caused a pointless arguement. Soul vs R&B, nu soul, old skool, same thing but difference in technology.

All I wanted from you was a response to my original point. You don't agree with me. thats fine. Tell me why i'm wrong without calling me thick or impling anything or making assumptions. This is reasoned debate. The ironic thing is I think we would find lots of common ground musically and it would be interesting to trawl through your records. If i disagree with you its not because i'm out to get you or try to annoy you, its because I may learn something from your response.

 

My original point is that Thelma Houston, Aalliya and MJB are soul singers. Why am i wrong? Or am I not wrong and the pigeon holing of music is plain stupid?

 

So what is your point. Most of your disco artists always have R&B backgrounds. Big Deal. Why do you think a lot of hip hop and R&B artist sample and bring back old skool cuts. Because these are the cuts r what they grew up listening to.

They do it because its good music. I have a tremendous amount of respect for hip hop artists. I think the fact that tuesday club brings people like Jazzy Jeff to sheff is superb. I have no issue with R&B except i think the majority of the artists are just soul singers. The modern day motown if you will.

 

Finally I think it should be on record that even though house and disco are my first love I do have enormous respect for lots of other black music. Hence why Norman Jay is one of my favourite DJ's. I'm not some ignorant kid who thinks they invented music and going out. Even if I were is that such a crime?

 

I give you one thing you can be gracious at times.

As are you. when you want to be

[dj4321]

I am not classing this as an arguement because, you see, you do not have one.

 

You are saying that Soul is a totally different entity to R&B.

I am saying soul music is just the same only the singers are more based from church backgrounds hence the word soul. Why is it then called the R&B charts then. R&B is the original word in 30's, 40's and 50's. As more singers came from the church to make hit records, Soul was a popular word. In the early 90's as hip hop took direction from the streets and more social and political records were made, R&B (or soul) began to fuse with hip hop beats. Hence the common word R&B is or back then Jack swing was being produced. Mary J Blige is the queen of hip hop soul, but she is classed as R&B. comprendez.

 

Again anybody that is ranting and continuing this stupid point is you. You bitch about anything you do not have an understanding about, which to me is self destruction. I would not vote for you for prime minister. You have admitted that it is not your scene. So I think your arguement lacks all common sence. YOU DO NOT CHECK FOR R&B as I detected from earlier posts. Just admit you do not like my voice as to you, I seem to be an authority figure. You sound just like a redneck, being threatened by a lesser person speaking his mind. If you are the voice of authority on this forum why dont you put on an R&B night and lets check it out, or a funk night as you seem to have a healthy collection. By now you have done your investigations, sometimes my son uses this thread and he at 18 displays more music knowledge than you.

All you have done is attack me so I am going to make this personal.

You talk about modern R&B and I do agree because it is more mainstream it is formulative, however just like the house scene there is an underground side to it. Obviously this side to it is the side you do not understand as you are not hearing it. If you buy Blues n Soul magazine you will educate yourself more on the aspect and help you understand. Give me your address and I will get Mark Devlin to send you one. ooops name dropping again, well i used to be a contributer and I do manage some of his dj bookings.

 

Finally to dun u now, as we say in da streets, ha ha.

you mention u love Blaze track.

DO YOU EVER LISTEN TO THE BLOODY LYRICS. I was listening to house before house was disco and R&B. The reason why he said that is because in his days of growing up and partying, people did not say a lot of disco tracks were disco tracks, they classed it as R&B or the more popular phrase in NY CLUB MUSIC. Hence Disco - Discotheque.

My final point to you is this do not try and argue a point out if your heart is not in the topic. You openly admit that you do not check for RNB but you want to debate a pointless topic about something that you are not passionate about. Infact as i am an arrogant ego tistical person do not try to question me about black music period. As I am the voice authority. WISE UP for god sake

[BRINGITON]

I am not classing this as an arguement because, you see, you do not have one.

 

You are saying that Soul is a totally different entity to R&B.

I am saying soul music is just the same only the singers are more based from church backgrounds hence the word soul. Why is it then called the R&B charts then. R&B is the original word in 30's, 40's and 50's. As more singers came from the church to make hit records, Soul was a popular word. In the early 90's as hip hop took direction from the streets and more social and political records were made, R&B (or soul) began to fuse with hip hop beats. Hence the common word R&B is or back then Jack swing was being produced. Mary J Blige is the queen of hip hop soul, but she is classed as R&B. comprendez.

 

Again anybody that is ranting and continuing this stupid point is you. You bitch about anything you do not have an understanding about, which to me is self destruction. I would not vote for you for prime minister. You have admitted that it is not your scene. So I think your arguement lacks all common sence. YOU DO NOT CHECK FOR R&B as I detected from earlier posts. Just admit you do not like my voice as to you, I seem to be an authority figure. You sound just like a redneck, being threatened by a lesser person speaking his mind. If you are the voice of authority on this forum why dont you put on an R&B night and lets check it out, or a funk night as you seem to have a healthy collection. By now you have done your investigations, sometimes my son uses this thread and he at 18 displays more music knowledge than you.

All you have done is attack me so I am going to make this personal.

You talk about modern R&B and I do agree because it is more mainstream it is formulative, however just like the house scene there is an underground side to it. Obviously this side to it is the side you do not understand as you are not hearing it. If you buy Blues n Soul magazine you will educate yourself more on the aspect and help you understand. Give me your address and I will get Mark Devlin to send you one. ooops name dropping again, well i used to be a contributer and I do manage some of his dj bookings.

 

Finally to dun u now, as we say in da streets, ha ha.

you mention u love Blaze track.

DO YOU EVER LISTEN TO THE BLOODY LYRICS. I was listening to house before house was disco and R&B. The reason why he said that is because in his days of growing up and partying, people did not say a lot of disco tracks were disco tracks, they classed it as R&B or the more popular phrase in NY CLUB MUSIC. Hence Disco - Discotheque.

My final point to you is this do not try and argue a point out if your heart is not in the topic. You openly admit that you do not check for RNB but you want to debate a pointless topic about something that you are not passionate about. Infact as i am an arrogant ego tistical person do not try to question me about black music period. As I am the voice authority. WISE UP for god sake

 

Ha ha ha, you crack me up mate, some of this stuff is hillarious!

 

Keep up the good, deluded work fella!

 

And Discodown - I'm glad to see I'm not the only person this prick winds up, now you know why you had to tell me to calm down on that last load of crap he spouted.

 

Anyways, DJ4321, I'm not getting involved here, merely commenting as an interested observer.

[discodown]

Ha ha ha, you crack me up mate, some of this stuff is hillarious!

 

Keep up the good, deluded work fella!

 

And Discodown - I'm glad to see I'm not the only person this prick winds up, now you know why you had to tell me to calm down on that last load of crap he spouted.

 

Anyways, DJ4321, I'm not getting involved here, merely commenting as an interested observer.

he doesn't wind me up. he winds himself up because he can't stick to the point. its easy to see he doesn't think about what hes posting which is why its easy to pick holes in his arguments.

 

like this...

[discodown]

I am not classing this as an arguement because, you see, you do not have one.

Obviously i do otherwise you wouldn't disagree so vehemently.

 

You are saying that Soul is a totally different entity to R&B.

I am saying soul music is just the same only the singers are more based from church backgrounds hence the word soul.

So where does gospel fit into it then? or is it just an offshoot of soul?

Why is it then called the R&B charts then.

Because the music business is run by white middle class men who have no idea about black music, thats why today there are seperate pop and R&B charts in america bcause the industry doesn't really understand the music so it all gets lumped together as R&B because they can't say its a chart for black music

R&B is the original word in 30's, 40's and 50's.

I think you'll find the original term was 'race' records

As more singers came from the church to make hit records, Soul was a popular word. In the early 90's as hip hop took direction from the streets and more social and political records were made, R&B (or soul) began to fuse with hip hop beats. Hence the common word R&B is or back then Jack swing was being produced. Mary J Blige is the queen of hip hop soul, but she is classed as R&B. comprendez.

Not really, i still don't understand. How can she be singing soul, to hip hop and it be called R&B?

 

Again anybody that is ranting and continuing this stupid point is you.

Yes just me, you've not said anything. You're just oppressed and picked on by nasty old discodown!

You bitch about anything you do not have an understanding about, which to me is self destruction.

I've not bitched about anything. all i did was make a statement that you reacted to and then i retorted. The only person who's bitching is you about things you apparently feel i've done or not done or things you'll make up about me and accuse me of

I would not vote for you for prime minister.

And why not? I'd be a good prime minister, better than the useless one we have now. Thats another argument for another time

You have admitted that it is not your scene. So I think your arguement lacks all common sence.

If i were arguing then fair enough but i'm not, all i've done is state an opinion and you've had a pop at me for it.

YOU DO NOT CHECK FOR R&B as I detected from earlier posts.

not quite sure what this means

Just admit you do not like my voice as to you, I seem to be an authority figure.

I've never heard your voice so i don't have an opinion on it. Youalso don't seem like an authority figure. You're just someone i'm having a disagreement with.

You sound just like a redneck, being threatened by a lesser person speaking his mind.

didn't realise you had an inferiority complex as well as a hatred of rednecks, thats about the third time you've accused me of that.

If you are the voice of authority on this forum.

I've never claimed to be the voice of authority on anything. i'm just a guy who voiced an opinion and got into a debate.

why dont you put on an R&B night and lets check it out, or a funk night as you seem to have a healthy collection.

Because its not my scene! I'm more into house and disco.

By now you have done your investigations,

Really not sure what this means

sometimes my son uses this thread and he at 18 displays more music knowledge than you

does he by any chance agree with you?

All you have done is attack me so I am going to make this personal.,

Yes it was me who made this personal! You had nothing to do with that

You talk about modern R&B and I do agree because it is more mainstream it is formulative, however just like the house scene there is an underground side to it. Obviously this side to it is the side you do not understand as you are not hearing it. If you buy Blues n Soul magazine you will educate yourself more on the aspect and help you understand. Give me your address and I will get Mark Devlin to send you one. ooops name dropping again, well i used to be a contributer and I do manage some of his dj bookings.,

For once i agree with you, this may be the most sensible thing you've said yet

 

Finally to dun u now, as we say in da streets, ha ha.

you mention u love Blaze track.

DO YOU EVER LISTEN TO THE BLOODY LYRICS. I was listening to house before house was disco and R&B. The reason why he said that is because in his days of growing up and partying, people did not say a lot of disco tracks were disco tracks, they classed it as R&B or the more popular phrase in NY CLUB MUSIC. Hence Disco - Discotheque.,

Discotheque is a french word coined in paris in the 30's. I listened to the lyrics and i drop the accapella quite a lot when i'm DJing. I get their point and i totally agree with them. There are really only two types of music, stuff you like and stuff you don't the continued fragmentation of the music scene into ever smaller pigeonholes is something that causes me much dismay and much of it is a media invention that serves no purpose except to narrow people musical horizons.

My final point to you is this do not try and argue a point out if your heart is not in the topic. You openly admit that you do not check for RNB but you want to debate a pointless topic about something that you are not passionate about. Infact as i am an arrogant ego tistical person do not try to question me about black music period. As I am the voice authority. WISE UP for god sake

And a valid point it is. However, since i dislike authority figures and bullies i will continue to ask questions, debate, hold my ground and defend my opinions. What i won't do is roll over and allow anyone to run roughshod over me. Whatever you may think of me - not that it matters since we don't know each other - you should be able to identify with that.

[dj4321]

Because its not my scene! I'm more into house and disco.

 

That just says it all about your character. You think you know it all about Soul and R&B and really you have no interest. really I'm glad you have taken this personal because so have I. Now its personal.

 

Have a nice day

[dj4321]

By the way bringiton, if you are going to come on here and startin something we can sort it out very easily. I am not going to comment because you both have no meaning on the word soul whats so ever. Hope to see you very soon mate.

[dj4321]

By the way i would rather be a prick than a pussy.