The WORST drivers, which cars do they drive?

[Guest sibon]

I love it when Justin gets involved in car based threads..it's better than watching telly .. :hihi:

 

It is a thing of great beauty, isn't it.

 

(Whisper it, but insurance company research suggests that Honda drivers have more accidents than drivers of other cars:D)

 

Hey, JB. Show us your objective criteria for crap driving please.

[Justin Smith]

It doesn't mean measurable, it means measurable regardless of who was to do the measuring.

 

That`s what I meant. But just out of interest, how can something be measurable and give one result to one person and a different result to another* ?

 

* Excluding user error or inaccurate calibration ? The latter is not relevant anyway when doing comparative research so long as the same measuring device is used for both.

[monkey104]

Objective in a scientific sense means measurable, not an opinion which can alter from day to day. In the case of the research on German cars speeding on the motorway it`s objective in that the cars are either overtaking us or we`re overtaking them (discounting cars travelling at exactly the same speed of course). That`s an objective unarguable fact.

 

Your question about the percentage of German cars on the road is a perceptive one as regards the percentage of cars which are undertaking bad driving. You can only say that German car drivers are worse than non German car drivers i the percentage of German cars exhibiting crap driving is significantly greater than the percentage of German cars on the road. My initial research on he percentage of German cars on the road is here but not yet finished. As a rough percentage I`d say 15 to 20%.

However, the percentage of German cars on the road is irrelevant to the research on whether they speed more then non German cars because that`s just comparative research.

 

My question about the percentage of German cars on the road is not a perceptive one.

Statistics is the science of information gathering. You and your missus counting cars is hardly that.

Unless you are telling me you sat beside the road with a clicker and clipboard monitoring traffic counting every car, noting every make, recording speeds, age of cars, condition of cars and a plethora of of other information.

What is perceptive is your definition of bad driving.

Edited July 15, 2015 by monkey104

[WiseOwl182]

 

Re:what cars people buy, I suspect that most people are constrained more by budget than anything else.

 

 

Not necessarily. Believe it or not, but most people aren't petrol heads that obsess over cars. Many just see it as a means to get from A to B and, whilst they could afford a Merc, choose to use their money more wisely instead.

[Eater Sundae]

Not necessarily. Believe it or not, but most people aren't petrol heads that obsess over cars. Many just see it as a means to get from A to B and, whilst they could afford a Merc, choose to use their money more wisely instead.

 

Spot on. Although in my case I am quite interested in cars, there's no way that I would spend what I can on a car. I choose an economical car, and use the money saved in what I think are better ways.

 

Also, small, cheap runabout cars can be fun to drive (in a roller skate / kart sort of way) on the road, whereas a high performance Grand Tourer only comes into its own on a circuit. They are simply too fast to remain safe on the road if full use is made of their performance.

[RonJeremy]

Not necessarily. Believe it or not, but most people aren't petrol heads that obsess over cars. Many just see it as a means to get from A to B and, whilst they could afford a Merc, choose to use their money more wisely instead.

 

If a fast car makes a person happy and that person can afford it: then they may want to make themselves happy. It doesn't make them not wise.

 

Buying a car beyond your means, now that is unwise.

 

I love my very very fast merc. It makes me happy.

[Cyclone]

Not necessarily. Believe it or not, but most people aren't petrol heads that obsess over cars. Many just see it as a means to get from A to B and, whilst they could afford a Merc, choose to use their money more wisely instead.

 

I still say that most people are constrained by budget.

 

But you make a good point, of the <50% of the population that aren't so constrained. Many just don't care, or have requirements like 7 seats or the ability to tow a caravan.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2015 at 21:37 ----------

 

You are correct of course, but I think any errors would be the same for both groups and therefore not significant. This is typical of the fact that comparative research is much easier than absolute research, and it`s comparative research I`m effectively doing here.

The sample size is of course important. I`m fully accepting of the fact the percentage of German cars may vary through the country, but since my research (on which cars exhibit the worst driving) is primarily round here that doesn`t actually matter. In fact it`s the percentage of German cars on the roads I use the most which is what I need to know, not the average percentage throughout the country.

 

You are also claiming that speeding slightly on the motorway is "the worst driving", I'd categorically disagree with that. Moderately breaking the speed limit on the motorway when conditions are good tells us practically nothing about good or bad or safe or unsafe driving. Your preoccupation with speed is telling however.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2015 at 21:40 ----------

 

Spot on. Although in my case I am quite interested in cars, there's no way that I would spend what I can on a car. I choose an economical car, and use the money saved in what I think are better ways.

That IS a budget constrain.

It's a budget you set for yourself, but it will be in most cases.

I'm sure many people in the south of England with a 500k 3 bed semi in their 50's that they own outright could sell it, move to a 2 bed in Sheffield and buy a Ferrari. They don't. That's a self imposed budget constraint since they COULD have a Ferrari.

But the average salary in the UK is about 22k/year, and <50% of people even have a mortaged house, so for the 'average' person a car that costs 50k is a ridiculous dream.

 

Also, small, cheap runabout cars can be fun to drive (in a roller skate / kart sort of way) on the road, whereas a high performance Grand Tourer only comes into its own on a circuit. They are simply too fast to remain safe on the road if full use is made of their performance.

Matter of opinion really.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2015 at 21:41 ----------

 

If a fast car makes a person happy and that person can afford it: then they may want to make themselves happy. It doesn't make them not wise.

 

Buying a car beyond your means, now that is unwise.

 

I love my very very fast merc. It makes me happy.

 

Very well put. We all choose our priorities in life. So long as we can afford the choices we make they are only unwise if they aren't choices that make us happy.

[mattleonard]

That`s what I meant. But just out of interest, how can something be measurable and give one result to one person and a different result to another* ?

 

* Excluding user error or inaccurate calibration ? The latter is not relevant anyway when doing comparative research so long as the same measuring device is used for both.

 

Well, because you are making an interpretation of your results (which is a very small sample in the grand scheme of things) you are making yourself the instrument. That potential inaccuracy makes it subjective.

 

Take this possible scenario as an example - say it just so happens that 95% of German car drivers are traveling at exactly the same speed as you, but only 5% non-German drivers doing the same. You won't encounter any of these drivers and so your results will be skewed away from the reality of what is actually occurring.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2015 at 09:33 ----------

 

You can only say that German car drivers are worse than non German car drivers i the percentage of German cars exhibiting crap driving is significantly greater than the percentage of German cars on the road.

 

Wat? That comparison isn't going to tell you any such thing. It's like saying that if I have a shopping trolley where apples are a significantly greater proportion of the fruit in the trolley, than the proportion of my shopping which is fruit, then I have more apples than rice crispies.

[Justin Smith]

My question about the percentage of German cars on the road is not a perceptive one.

Statistics is the science of information gathering. You and your missus counting cars is hardly that.

Unless you are telling me you sat beside the road with a clicker and clipboard monitoring traffic counting every car, noting every make, recording speeds, age of cars, condition of cars and a plethora of of other information.

What is perceptive is your definition of bad driving.

 

Maybe I was reading more into what you said, I`ll take back my compliment if you want !

It`s got nothing to do with my missus by the way, this is my little baby alone.

You`re wrong in your comments about research by the way.

On the speeding thing the percentage of German cars on the road is irrelevant to the conclusion.

Whilst working out the %age of German cars on the road you do not have to count every one at all. Because it`s only comparative research, in this connection (unless one is deliberately not counting German cars for some reason) it means you`re just as likely to miss a German car as a non German one, so it all balances out in the end.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 13:39 ----------

 

You are also claiming that speeding slightly on the motorway is "the worst driving", I'd categorically disagree with that. Moderately breaking the speed limit on the motorway when conditions are good tells us practically nothing about good or bad or safe or unsafe driving. Your preoccupation with speed is telling however.

 

Sorry, where did I say that ?

One of the examples of ultra crap driving that is in my list occurred on the M40 near Banbury in fact. A Porsche went past in the outside lane doing about 90. I do think that is poor driving and he should be prosecuted, but that didn't make my list of "Bleedin` hell !" driving. It was the cretin in the Black Merc behind him which made the list, he was right up his rear end at 90mph. What`s more he also proved he was a crap driver because as he disappeared into the distance (still up the **** of the Porsche) I saw his brake lights come on at least 3X. Good drivers using sufficient concentration and anticipation don`t brake on the motorway, not unless someone pulls out on them, which didn`t occur here.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 13:47 ----------

 

Well, because you are making an interpretation of your results (which is a very small sample in the grand scheme of things) you are making yourself the instrument. That potential inaccuracy makes it subjective.

 

Take this possible scenario as an example - say it just so happens that 95% of German car drivers are traveling at exactly the same speed as you, but only 5% non-German drivers doing the same. You won't encounter any of these drivers and so your results will be skewed away from the reality of what is actually occurring.

 

Wat? That comparison isn't going to tell you any such thing. It's like saying that if I have a shopping trolley where apples are a significantly greater proportion of the fruit in the trolley, than the proportion of my shopping which is fruit, then I have more apples than rice crispies.

 

You know as well as I do that isn`t going to happen. But, as it happens, the results were so overwhelming that small sampling errors are irrelevant.

 

I don`t agree with your second point at all. 60% of the appalling driving I`ve seen in the last 6 months is German cars, but if German cars make up 60% of the cars on the road that isn`t actually saying anything. But they don`t make up 60%, I`d say they` make up 20 to 25% maximum. To me the conclusion is obvious.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 13:52 ----------

 

If a fast car makes a person happy and that person can afford it: then they may want to make themselves happy. It doesn't make them not wise.

 

Buying a car beyond your means, now that is unwise.

 

I love my very very fast merc. It makes me happy.

 

The problem I have with fast cars (and I know this from my past when, I admit, I was immature) is that they tend to get driven faster. Whatever b******s the "petrolheads" might come up with driving faster is more likely to result in an accident and the consequences of that accident will be more serious. That`d be fine if the driver concerned was the only one on the roads, but he isn`t. He`s sharing the roads with the rest of us and therefore putting others at risk. That`s why we have speed limits / traffic police / compulsory insurance / driving licences etc etc etc.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Justin Smith

[mattleonard]

You know as well as I do that isn`t going to happen. But, as it happens, the results were so overwhelming that small sampling errors are irrelevant.

 

Except that your whole hypothesis is that German-car drivers are behaving in a different way to non-German drivers. And your behaviour is evidence that some people choose their speed in a very deliberate manner.

 

Maybe these German car drivers have similar inklings to you and so are carrying out a similar study, with exactly the same methodology. I admit it would be very strange for only the drivers of German cars to do so, but your whole argument is that the drivers of German cars mysteriously behave in a similar manner, so it's not really any more outlandish than your theory.

 

But here is a perhaps more plausible theory - maybe the German manufacturers have more accurate speedos, and maybe your car overjudges your speed. If your results are correct (which I'm sceptical of), it's more plausible that the common feature is in the car, seeing as that's the variable, than in the behaviour of the drivers.