truman Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Whatever b******s the "petrolheads" might come up with driving faster is more likely to result in an accident Do you have figures for this? I'm fairly certain that the stats say most accidents occur at or below the posted limit.. "Exceeding the speed limit was reported as a factor in 5 per cent of accidents" From here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9277/rrcgb2011-04.pdf Edited July 17, 2015 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I don`t agree with your second point at all. 60% of the appalling driving I`ve seen in the last 6 months is German cars, but if German cars make up 60% of the cars on the road that isn`t actually saying anything. But they don`t make up 60%, I`d say they` make up 20 to 25% maximum. To me the conclusion is obvious. That argument would have more merit (if it weren't for confirmation bias etc.), but it's not the same comparison as the one you described earlier... You can only say that German car drivers are worse than non German car drivers i the percentage of German cars exhibiting crap driving is significantly greater than the percentage of German cars on the road. (my bold) What you've described this time round isn't "the percentage of German cars exhibiting crap driving" but the percentage of cars exhibiting crap driving which are German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Except that your whole hypothesis is that German-car drivers are behaving in a different way to non-German drivers. And your behaviour is evidence that some people choose their speed in a very deliberate manner. Maybe these German car drivers have similar inklings to you and so are carrying out a similar study, with exactly the same methodology. I admit it would be very strange for only the drivers of German cars to do so, but your whole argument is that the drivers of German cars mysteriously behave in a similar manner, so it's not really any more outlandish than your theory. But here is a perhaps more plausible theory - maybe the German manufacturers have more accurate speedos, and maybe your car overjudges your speed. If your results are correct (which I'm sceptical of), it's more plausible that the common feature is in the car, seeing as that's the variable, than in the behaviour of the drivers. My whole argument is that German car drivers tend to be more aggressive / less patient (i.e. [for driving on the public roads] worse drivers), and all my observations support this theory very strongly indeed. ---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 15:46 ---------- That argument would have more merit (if it weren't for confirmation bias etc.), but it's not the same comparison as the one you described earlier... (my bold) What you've described this time round isn't "the percentage of German cars exhibiting crap driving" but the percentage of cars exhibiting crap driving which are German. You are correct, it was poorly put by myself. It is the latter that I`m saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 My whole argument is that German car drivers tend to be more aggressive / less patient (i.e. [for driving on the public roads] worse drivers), and all my observations support this theory very strongly indeed I do around 40k miles per year and my observations don't support your theory... where do we go from here..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Do you have figures for this? I'm fairly certain that the stats say most accidents occur at or below the posted limit.. "Exceeding the speed limit was reported as a factor in 5 per cent of accidents" From here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9277/rrcgb2011-04.pdf I can show you 100s of roads where even doing the speed limit should result in a conviction for reckless driving, and that`s in good conditions...... Quite apart from anything you should never drive at a speed in which you cannot stop within the distance you can see to be safe, straight away that means many corners or other roads with restricted visibility should require the driver to slow down greatly, but they don`t always do so do they ? But this is all b******s isn`t it ? We all know that if you drive faster you (and the other fella) have less time to take evasive action, and the result of any accident will be far worse. Even the petrolheads can`t ignore the formula for kinetic energy, energy goes up by the square of the speed. Well actually they can, petrolheads ignore everything which indicates they should slow down and drive with safety as their number one priority as opposed to them getting a cheap thrill or them saving 1 or 2 minutes on their journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I can show you 100s of roads where even doing the speed limit should result in a conviction for reckless driving, and that`s in good conditions...... Quite apart from anything you should never drive at a speed in which you cannot stop within the distance you can see to be safe, straight away that means many corners or other roads with restricted visibility should require the driver to slow down greatly, but they don`t always do so do they ? But this is all b******s isn`t it ? We all know that if you drive faster you (and the other fella) have less time to take evasive action, and the result of any accident will be far worse. Even the petrolheads can`t ignore the formula for kinetic energy, energy goes up by the square of the speed. Well actually they can, petrolheads ignore everything which indicates they should slow down and drive with safety as their number one priority as opposed to them getting a cheap thrill or them saving 1 or 2 minutes on their journey. The stats say most accidents happen within the speed limit.. your anecdotal stuff means nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I do around 40k miles per year and my observations don't support your theory... where do we go from here..? What objective research have you done to prove my theory wrong ? Unless you`re saying I`m just making all my figures up I`d have thought my conclusion was pretty unarguable. ---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 16:56 ---------- The stats say most accidents happen within the speed limit.. your anecdotal stuff means nothing... Anecdotal stuff, you mean facts ? Just because an accident happens when the vehicle was doing the speed limit does not mean the speed was not excessive at the time of the accident. I`d have thought that almost by definition if a driver has an accident which was their fault then in the great majority of cases their speed was excessive. Or to put it another way if they`d been going slower they may not have had the accident. Edited July 17, 2015 by Justin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 [/B] My whole argument is that German car drivers tend to be more aggressive / less patient (i.e. [for driving on the public roads] worse drivers), and all my observations support this theory very strongly indeed.[COLOR="Silver"] ---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 15:46 ---------- [/color] You are correct, it was poorly put by myself. It is the latter that I`m saying. On what information do you base this. Have you stopped drivers of German cars and spoken to them, asked them unbiased questions as to their manner of driving? Crap driving as you put it is subjective. What do you base this on? Some would say that drivers who leave big gaps in slow moving traffic are extending the congestion while others would say they are being sensible and leaving room for monouvre. Some drivers like to make progress while some would say they are setting off too quick. Who is right and who is wrong, maybe the opinion is swayed by the fact they are driving a German car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What objective research have you done to prove my theory wrong ? Unless you`re saying I`m just making all my figures up I`d have thought my conclusion was pretty unarguable. ---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 16:56 ---------- Anecdotal stuff, you mean facts ? Just because an accident happens when the vehicle was doing the speed limit does not mean the speed was not excessive at the time of the accident. I`d have thought that almost by definition if a driver has an accident which was their fault then in the great majority of cases their speed was excessive. Or to put it another way if they`d been going slower they may not have had the accident. I'm sorry to be rude, you are probably a very nice person, but BARKING doesn't even begin to describe this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm sorry to be rude, you are probably a very nice person, but BARKING doesn't even begin to describe this. So it's not just me? I was beginning to doubt myself:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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