Your opinions on Mental Illness

[donuticus]

Until my recent diagnosis of Manic Depression / Bi-Polar (delete as applicable) I was treated for Paranoid Schizophrenia. The reason being my manic episodes were so powerful they lead me to suffer serious psychosis, in the form of both auditory and visual hallucinations. I was initally treated for schizophrenia because my mood swings were "to common" to be MD and were therefore believed not to be a cause of the problem merely a syptom of it.

 

My manic depression causes my mood to fluctuate throughout the day from extreme highs to crippling lows in a matter of minutes. Even the maximum allowed dose of this medication merely serves to slow the transitions between states which can occur four to five times a day.

 

However despite this I still manage to hold down a very good job and a place at University. Im not trying to show off with the above statement I just want people to know that given the right circumstances and the determination you can still live a life as fulfilling, if not more so than anyone elses.

 

Believe in yourself and take the determination and the focus it requires to get through the hard times and use it to drive you on everyday.

[StarSparkle]

Originally Posted by JoeP

 

I've seen a lot of people avoid meds like the plague and carry on with talking therapies that are just not working. There is no heroism in that, no 'goodness', nothing to be gained.

 

Do what you need to do to get yourself or the patient back to a lifestyle that they can handle. Tell the folks who try and convince you NOT to take medication to live for a while with the problem.

 

 

JoeP is absolutely spot-on right here.

 

I simply don't know why there is so much resistance to medication that can literally give people their lives back. It worries me that this negativity towards medication may put people off taking it who really need it, and could find their lives transformed through taking it. Fair enough, medication won't help/doesn't agree with everyone who suffers from depression, but I detect a strong Puritan outlook with this issue - that you're weak if you have to resort to medication, and it's much better to sort yourself out.

 

I find myself speechless at this ridiculous attitude - if someone was in severe physical pain, they wouldn't be told be told to just put up with it, would they? They'd be offerred painkillers straightaway, without any hesitation.

 

If you have chemical imbalances in the brain, you need medication to help sort those imbalances out. You may have to try a number of different SSRIs or other types of medication to find out what suits you - but why carry on suffering, if there's something that can help with your depression, even if it's only to a certain degree? Why suffer needlessly?

 

It does make me angry that people who could really benefit from the likes of SSRIs are being put off taking them in the first place without even giving them a chance to work. If you've ever had the misfortune to suffer from depression, you'll know how cruel this attitude is.

 

StarSparkle

[Darbees]

I simply don't know why there is so much resistance to medication that can literally give people their lives back.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have medication I'm saying that it isn't always essential, some people are too quick to take medication without trying anything else but I also agree that medication can give people their lives back too.

 

but I detect a strong Puritan outlook with this issue - that you're weak if you have to resort to medication, and it's much better to sort yourself out.

I don't think it's Puritanical, it's just a different view of an inexact science which is difficult because it usually doesn't present tangible symptoms unlike the physical pain which cannot be cured by counselling and therefore has to have medication if it is intolerable.

 

If you have chemical imbalances in the brain, you need medication to help sort those imbalances out.

Physical chemical imbalances in the brain in depression circumstances are not usually caused by taking anything and so it is possible to change them back to "normal" using ones own brainpower with some guidance to work in the opposite way to the way it worked to cause it in the first place.

 

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone or every type of depression, I am just saying that it can be cured in some cases without medication.

[purple_frog]

 

I simply don't know why there is so much resistance to medication that can literally give people their lives back. It worries me that this negativity towards medication may put people off taking it who really need it, and could find their lives transformed through taking it. Fair enough, medication won't help/doesn't agree with everyone who suffers from depression, but I detect a strong Puritan outlook with this issue - that you're weak if you have to resort to medication, and it's much better to sort yourself out.

 

I find myself speechless at this ridiculous attitude - if someone was in severe physical pain, they wouldn't be told be told to just put up with it, would they? They'd be offerred painkillers straightaway, without any hesitation.

 

If you have chemical imbalances in the brain, you need medication to help sort those imbalances out. You may have to try a number of different SSRIs or other types of medication to find out what suits you - but why carry on suffering, if there's something that can help with your depression, even if it's only to a certain degree? Why suffer needlessly?

 

It does make me angry that people who could really benefit from the likes of SSRIs are being put off taking them in the first place without even giving them a chance to work. If you've ever had the misfortune to suffer from depression, you'll know how cruel this attitude is.

 

StarSparkle

 

 

For me the problem is that prescribing meds is often the first thing the GP will do, without looking at the wider biopsychosocial context. Yes, meds do help certain people, but not universally or even particularly generally. They can help to ease symptoms for a while, and for some people that in itself can be enough to enable them to make whatever changes they need to make in order to 'fix' the underlying problem. And yes, for some people, Depression may indeed by down to purely chemical causes. However, generally medication is no more effective than any other form of therapy in the short term, and is less effective in the long term.

 

I am certainly NOT suggesting that people continue to suffer, rather that they should be given the help they need to rebuild their lives, their sense of self, their sense of empowerment and competence, their relationships, their patterns of interpersonal interactions ... taking medication cannot do these things for anyone. Some people are strong enough or have the where-with-all to be able to make the necessary changes on their own, but many people need help in unravelling a lifetimes of coping patters and thinking pattens.

 

For me, this has absolutely nothing to do with Puritanical leanings, nor does an individual's choice regarding whether to accept or reject medication affect how I see them. And certainly some conditions do have clear biological underpinnings (eg psychoses) but even with regard to many of these conditions thinking is now evolving and accepting that there may also be psychological precipitating or maintaining factors (particularly truama and maladaptive coping strategies).

 

So I do firmly believe that a purely medicalised view of mental health is limiting and unsatisfactory (or, at its extreme, detrimental).

 

 

ps Re the comparison with Pain, psychotherapeutic techniques can be hugely useful in controlling pain, with or without medication, and pain itself is known be be exaccerbated by psychosocial factors ... nothing is very straighforward when it comes to the body-mind field!

[Heyesey]

So I do firmly believe that a purely medicalised view of mental health is limiting and unsatisfactory (or, at its extreme, detrimental).

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with that; but some people still do take the "pull yourself together and stop being a miserable sod, tablets won't help you" views, and it's hard sometimes to distinguish you from them. I think we all agree that medication is useful in *most* cases in the short-term, to put people on a sufficiently even keel that they can deal with the root causes; but only in a small number of cases (like mine) where a chemical imbalance in the brain actually *is* the root cause, is long-term medication likely to be helpful.

[purple_frog]

I've no complaints with what you've said. It absolutely does depend on the person and the condition. I just worry sometimes that some people may develop the view that ONLY medication can help them, when, for them, this may not actually be the case, and that, as a result, they may reject other interventions that could be hugely beneficial to them.

 

But yes, meds do have their place.

 

I am aware that all this is off-topic, btw, so sorry!

[donuticus]

Originally Posted by JoeP

 

I've seen a lot of people avoid meds like the plague and carry on with talking therapies that are just not working. There is no heroism in that, no 'goodness', nothing to be gained.

 

Do what you need to do to get yourself or the patient back to a lifestyle that they can handle. Tell the folks who try and convince you NOT to take medication to live for a while with the problem.

 

 

JoeP is absolutely spot-on right here.

 

I simply don't know why there is so much resistance to medication that can literally give people their lives back. It worries me that this negativity towards medication may put people off taking it who really need it, and could find their lives transformed through taking it. Fair enough, medication won't help/doesn't agree with everyone who suffers from depression, but I detect a strong Puritan outlook with this issue - that you're weak if you have to resort to medication, and it's much better to sort yourself out.

 

I find myself speechless at this ridiculous attitude - if someone was in severe physical pain, they wouldn't be told be told to just put up with it, would they? They'd be offerred painkillers straightaway, without any hesitation.

 

If you have chemical imbalances in the brain, you need medication to help sort those imbalances out. You may have to try a number of different SSRIs or other types of medication to find out what suits you - but why carry on suffering, if there's something that can help with your depression, even if it's only to a certain degree? Why suffer needlessly?

 

It does make me angry that people who could really benefit from the likes of SSRIs are being put off taking them in the first place without even giving them a chance to work. If you've ever had the misfortune to suffer from depression, you'll know how cruel this attitude is.

 

StarSparkle

 

The reason many people with MD stop taking their medication is because of the side effects

 

Any mood stabilisers dont actually stabilise you all they do is remove the abillity of the mind to alter its emotional state, i.e. no misery but no happiness. Imagine never feeling an emotion again not happy not sad not elated not angry. It creates a stable person via zombification.

 

To control any hallucinations, either auditory or visual, an anti-psychotic medication is prescribed. The most common of these Olanzapine works by subduing the brain to the point of being barely awake so as to stop the emotional spikes which cause the psychotic symptoms.

 

Imagine going to your Dr and being put on this course of medication for a month, you wouldnt be particularly enthusiastic about it would you ? Now i'm 26 so I have to take that medication for somewhere in the region of 50yrs. I have lost two serious girlfriends simply because they feel unloved and uncared for. I could win the lottery tonight and all that would happen would be a slight raise in my heartbeat and shrug of my shoulders.

 

Then the physical side effects. Muscle tremor so bad I can no longer write more than a couple of lines with a pen and paper, nausea, vomiting, weight gain and a horrendous metallic taste in your mouth 24/7.

 

No everyone who refuses to take their medication is being pigheaded, I admire those who can live a relatively normal life without the aid of medication because it would be impossible for me. If I could avoid these side effects by stopping medication I would.

[JoeP]

For me the problem is that prescribing meds is often the first thing the GP will do, without looking at the wider biopsychosocial context. Yes, meds do help certain people, but not universally or even particularly generally. They can help to ease symptoms for a while, and for some people that in itself can be enough to enable them to make whatever changes they need to make in order to 'fix' the underlying problem. And yes, for some people, Depression may indeed by down to purely chemical causes. However, generally medication is no more effective than any other form of therapy in the short term, and is less effective in the long term.

 

I think that there's a lot to this.

 

When I did my Biochemistry degree in the late 1970s / early 1980s, the use of SSRIs was just emerging and the way in which the Serotonin / Noradrenaline pathways moderate behaviour was becoming more widely understood.

 

When I took medication, the 4 months I was on SSRIs was a great help and basically allowed me to 'straighten up and fly right'. I do wonder whether prolonged emotional stress or trauma actually modifies the way in which neurotransmitters work?

 

I have to differ in my own situation with the difference between medicatioon and other therapies. I'd had counselling and it basically didn't work - simple as that. Perhaps if I'd been willing to spend a year or two on it and become unemployed in teh meantime, it might have had effects. But for me teh drugs worked.

 

This, of course, has been about depression - if you look at other conditions such as Schizophrenia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorders, etc. then I'm not sure that the same arguments necessarily hold true.

[StarSparkle]

The reason many people with MD stop taking their medication is because of the side effects

 

Any mood stabilisers dont actually stabilise you all they do is remove the abillity of the mind to alter its emotional state, i.e. no misery but no happiness. Imagine never feeling an emotion again not happy not sad not elated not angry. It creates a stable person via zombification.

 

To control any hallucinations, either auditory or visual, an anti-psychotic medication is prescribed. The most common of these Olanzapine works by subduing the brain to the point of being barely awake so as to stop the emotional spikes which cause the psychotic symptoms.

 

Imagine going to your Dr and being put on this course of medication for a month, you wouldnt be particularly enthusiastic about it would you ? Now i'm 26 so I have to take that medication for somewhere in the region of 50yrs. I have lost two serious girlfriends simply because they feel unloved and uncared for. I could win the lottery tonight and all that would happen would be a slight raise in my heartbeat and shrug of my shoulders.

 

Then the physical side effects. Muscle tremor so bad I can no longer write more than a couple of lines with a pen and paper, nausea, vomiting, weight gain and a horrendous metallic taste in your mouth 24/7.

 

No everyone who refuses to take their medication is being pigheaded, I admire those who can live a relatively normal life without the aid of medication because it would be impossible for me. If I could avoid these side effects by stopping medication I would.

 

Please don't try to lecture me - I appreciate you are talking from a position of experience, but so am I.

 

I am not intending to minimise the sometimes-very-unpleasant side-effects of some medication, but I think these can be over-estimated to the extent that fears about side-effects can prevent people taking medication that could really help them. Especially as, certainly with regard to Prozac for example, those side-effects may well be only temporary, but the relief obtained from taking the drug is ongoing. As I understand it, individual people will react differently from others to the same medication - that is why it may be necessary to try a number of medications before an individual finds the one that is right for them.

 

Thankfully, I have no need to take and therefore have no experience of the strong medications you refer to, but I can assure you that Prozac certainly does NOT turn people into zombies by any means. That is just simply not true. If you have a brain-chemistry imbalance that requires you take Prozac for the rest of your life, Prozac GIVES YOU BACK your life, it doesn't take it away. Taking a pill every day of your life is such a small thing to have to do, in order to be able to LIVE that life. You are certainly not zombified - taking Prozac clears your thinking and allows you to be the person you were meant to be. That is what I truly believe, from my experiences. Prozac can literally allow a depression sufferer to be reborn.

 

I appreciate that in some cases with some drugs, the side-effects may be so bad as to make the patient stop taking them altogether. But certainly with regard to some SSRIs I do think the side-effects can be over-emphasised, to the extent that people are afraid to take drugs that would be helpful to them.

 

Just to qualify my postings - I am only talking about SSRIs with regard to what I've been saying about depression, as I have no experience of other types of medication.

 

StarSparkle

[BobbyBunny]

Please don't try to lecture me - I appreciate you are talking from a position of experience, but so am I.

 

I am not intending to minimise the sometimes-very-unpleasant side-effects of some medication, but I think these can be over-estimated to the extent that fears about side-effects can prevent people taking medication that could really help them. Especially as, certainly with regard to Prozac for example, those side-effects may well be only temporary, but the relief obtained from taking the drug is ongoing. As I understand it, individual people will react differently from others to the same medication - that is why it may be necessary to try a number of medications before an individual finds the one that is right for them.

 

Thankfully, I have no need to take and therefore have no experience of the strong medications you refer to, but I can assure you that Prozac certainly does NOT turn people into zombies by any means. That is just simply not true. If you have a brain-chemistry imbalance that requires you take Prozac for the rest of your life, Prozac GIVES YOU BACK your life, it doesn't take it away. Taking a pill every day of your life is such a small thing to have to do, in order to be able to LIVE that life. You are certainly not zombified - taking Prozac clears your thinking and allows you to be the person you were meant to be. That is what I truly believe, from my experiences. Prozac can literally allow a depression sufferer to be reborn.

 

I appreciate that in some cases with some drugs, the side-effects may be so bad as to make the patient stop taking them altogether. But certainly with regard to some SSRIs I do think the side-effects can be over-emphasised, to the extent that people are afraid to take drugs that would be helpful to them.

 

Just to qualify my postings - I am only talking about SSRIs with regard to what I've been saying about depression, as I have no experience of other types of medication.

 

StarSparkle

 

BUT not everyone takes prozac. I DON'T take prozac - I'm supposed to take a cocktail of lithium, and three other drugs I don't remember the names of. I don't over emphasize my side effects, they are what they are. Its all or nothing for me, I either take them ALL or I take none. They all counter act each other, (well they're supposed to) but I still seem to be emotionless, cold hearted, and just a shell. Nothing affects me. My own grandfather died two years ago today when I was taking my cocktail of drugs, and I didn't even cry a single tear when that happened. I wanted to be sad, I wanted to cry and scream and curse the fact that I will never see him again, but I couldn't.

 

If you don't know what its like to be without emotion, don't preach about how they make you feel. Prozac is nothing compared to what some people have to take in order to have a stable personality. Right now I'm not drugged - I feel GREAT at the moment, but last night I didn't feel so great. I'd rather feel great most of the time and absolutely horrendous - so bad I don't want to get out of bed, so bad I'd rather die than open the curtains, than feel nothing. What kind of a life is it to not have any emotions? As I've said, when I was drugged I couldn't tell my mother I loved her. I couldn't tell my Grandma I was sorry Grandad died, because I didn't feel it. I'd rather feel my sorrow than live life through a veil.

 

I've tried a lot of drugs - and nothing works for me. They all make me feel the exact same way, and I am not willing to live my life like that just so as I don't become another statistic of a perfectly PHYSICALLY healthy person (but not mentally healthy in the least) sitting on their ass all day instead of working. In the state I'm in now, I would be missing half a year of work because of my state of mind.