DaBouncer Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally Posted by Mr_E And as for the security staff acting badly, lets face it, security staff are similar everywhere, there are some good ones and bad ones at most venues. It's still disgraceful when they act inappropriately. This is actually the fault of the agencies' training and the poor regulation of door staff generally. I'm sorry I have to take exception to this portion of your post. You're talking b******* saying that security staff are similar everywhere. Just because this particular club (and it doen't take einstein to work out which you're referring to with the amount of '*' out letters) has a security problem doesn't make it so everywhere. Yes there are some bad apples, but the majority these days are not like the door staff of yesteryear. They're more heavily regulated and watched and the training (depending on where you get it from) is of the highest standard. Although yes I have officially now retired from the doortrade, it's still an industry I look fondly on even though I only operated in it's circles for a relatively short time. Sheffield Doorstaff are actually some of the best in Yorkshire for integrity, professionalism, courtesy and friendliness. Not to mention being excellent in the field of the work they're paid to do. The particular club mentioned I happen to have worked at a coupld of years ago. Back then it was a different security firm who were in charge and they were the dogs nads for professionalism. I've heard mixed reports these days so there you go. And on the subject of just ejecting the female in question, blame the club managers. When they tie the hands of security staff and basically say it's your job on the line if you keep the particular reveller on the premises what are they to do? OK myself, I always (and believe me or not it makes no odds) always put the safety and comfort of the guests first and foremost. One of the reasons for my interview by BBC Radio Sheffield (as I happen to have displayed such to one of it's presenters). As far as regulation goes, I guess you've never heard of the S.I.A which is the new security industry regulation body that was setup to deal with those rogue doorstaff and those who act in an inappropriate manner? You can gain information from their website if you wish. They officialy come into force in Sheffield in December. All security staff right down to Marks and Spencers in house staff have to have the new SIA badge and have gone through conflict management training. This training is only provided by companies who meet SIA high standards. So please before you make a sweeping statement such as this, get the facts. The facts are that the MAJORITY of Sheffield doorstaff (and doorstaff everywhere as a whole) are good, professional and friendly individuals who put the safety of the customers & staff of the venues they are employed at before there own. Thank you DaBouncer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 very eloquently put dabouncer. With the new SIA regulations the standards of doorstaff have never been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_E Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Security staff at entertainments venues are supposed to protect the public, the venue and themselves. And I appreciate that it's one of the hardest jobs in the world to do well . I accept your comments and good intentions to improve the situation. I wasn't referring to conflict management, I, myself have undergone conflict management training (for very different reasons) and it was very good for the most part. But I was referring to basic first aid. One Fact is that unconscious people usually need help... As for my comments about good and bad security staff, please don't take exception. The fact remains, forgetting club management/gangster/legal/security/local authority politics issues, that someone who needed help was ignored by people whose job it is to help. In all walks of life there are bad apples. And I am glad that efforts are being made to sift them out. But a bit of compassion can save a life just as effectively as knowing how to dissipate an argument or administering reasonable force. The Fact on issue here is people are becoming victims of a crime. This is terrible and it needs to be stopped. This Fact has affected the tone of my “sweeping comment”. I am sorry if I have caused offence to someone who is conscientious. But I am outraged that this drugging is happening in clubs. No matter how you look at it, it has to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyR Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 in the very odd libel laws of this counrty the medium can be oftwen taken to court. A classic example of the laws can work in surprising ways was the "prince charles, is he bi scandal" Brittish papers could not print allegations but foreign papers could, yet newsagents selling foreign papers could be sued and were forced to stop selling foreign papers thus i couldnt get hold of le monde at the time when i needed it. On the subject of rape drugs (i agree on the date semantics) i've known it happen at two nightclubs on student nights. i have only ever been searched once in my life entering a club in sheffield and that was B.E.D. On the subject of ID, ive never been I.D'ed in my life in sheffield but i look older, my firends have but then have watched blatanlty underage girls get in because of how low there skirt is (if im honest not that im complaining). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niko007 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Horrible to hear this has happened in sheffield The one thing ive not heard mentioned is the actual proof that the victim in question was actually drugged with a date rape drug ? Maybe she was just enjoying a night out on one of the many recreational drugs available and had a bad experience "whitey" Im sure that people who have tried recreational drugs before have all had a bad experiences as well as good . This is just an opinion , If the facts are true and this did happened to the person in question I hope she is ok . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimicraze Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 she doesnt use recreational drugs. Shes not ok, she was rushed to hospital last night and is being booked into seing a neurologist soon enough for some tests and things. it took her a week to get better and now this happens. they think its directly related to what happened at said club. everybody cross their fingers for her that its nothing serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by Mr_E Security staff at entertainments venues are supposed to protect the public, the venue and themselves. And I appreciate that it's one of the hardest jobs in the world to do well . I accept your comments and good intentions to improve the situation. I wasn't referring to conflict management, I, myself have undergone conflict management training (for very different reasons) and it was very good for the most part. But I was referring to basic first aid. One Fact is that unconscious people usually need help... As for my comments about good and bad security staff, please don't take exception. The fact remains, forgetting club management/gangster/legal/security/local authority politics issues, that someone who needed help was ignored by people whose job it is to help. In all walks of life there are bad apples. And I am glad that efforts are being made to sift them out. But a bit of compassion can save a life just as effectively as knowing how to dissipate an argument or administering reasonable force. The Fact on issue here is people are becoming victims of a crime. This is terrible and it needs to be stopped. This Fact has affected the tone of my “sweeping comment”. I am sorry if I have caused offence to someone who is conscientious. But I am outraged that this drugging is happening in clubs. No matter how you look at it, it has to be addressed. I accept your revised version and yes if someone is unconcious whether through drink, drugs or other attention needs to be administered to that indivdual one way or the other. It's no excuse to say that a lot of people may be coming out of the club drunk and on the verge of unconciousness, they need to be addressed. If they ejected this person and left them on their own, then yes they are responsible. However if someone walks out of the premises and becomes unconscious afterwards, the responsibility does not fall with the club or any of it's staff. However this is where social resposibility comes into play with the individual. I.e. I have no legal responsibility to that person who is unconsious no more than I do if I was walking the streets and found them there. However the right thing to do, since I have the relative training is to help this indivual (even if that help is to keep a check of breathing while I get help from paramedics). I took exception with the comments made which came across as most of the security staff (the industry as a whole is flawed) when this blatently is not the case. We need more people to trust we're doing the right thing for them (I say we, but I'm no longer in that industry). Bad apples need to be sought out and removed from the industry, but this is much the responibility of the agencies who employ these rogue staff too. Talking of searching for drugs when entering a club, this is a practive which is sadly lacking in Sheffield today. Gatecrasher employes this as spot check on people as and when it requires. The leadmill doesn't search at all, and neither does Kingdom. These being the main clubs in Sheffield, they should set an example to smaller venues to uphold. I for one think it's a great policy for clubs to search EVERY person who enters the premises (whether it takes a long time or not) this only serves to promote a safer environment for people to enjoy. Theonly club in Sheffield which did this as a rule with everyone has now closed down and it was the Roundhouse (now Aqua - below ponds forge). I'm not sure if the new Aqua club still does this, but I think it should be taken on board across Sheffields club culture as a whole. It should also extend to late bars such as Takapuna, Reflex etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richl Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 The Leadmill does use both random & targetted searching, as and when necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Well in all the years I've been going there and the security staff I have known who have worked there, I can honestly say I have never witnessed this. However if they are now doing this, it will be a welcomed addition, but it needs to be a full search for everyone not just targetted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richl Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 I'll PM you about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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