GabbleRatcht Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I believe JoeP is correct. The dynamics of the Earths climate are not in any way wholly dependant on humans. However, we may be contributing. It's like saying that prehistoric humans caused the last Ice Age. How did they do that? With giant refrigerators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipbuttie Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 It's up to you, but I honestly believe that the genuine truth is that we are contributing, not causing, but our contribution could be the straw that breaks the camel's back (particularly appropriate if you read lovelock's latest. ) Anyway - that's all mentioned elsewhere - but I won't be voting here. Yes I agree,we are 'contributing' to the point that we have broken the camels back. Surley 'contributing' is a YES! Come on Joe,please vote either way, no fence sitting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabbleRatcht Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Yes I agree,we are 'contributing' to the point that we have broken the camels back. Surley 'contributing' is a YES! Come on Joe,please vote either way, no fence sitting now. That wasn't your question. You asked if it was man made. Contributing is actually a no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmaker2 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 based on the TV programme te other night i say NO, animals poo make more gasses than we create Not sure if you mean The Great Global Warming Swindle. But that programme has now been badly discredited by one of it's leading contributors Carl Wunsch Professor of Physical OceanographyMassachusetts Institute of Technology: "An example where my own discussion was grossly distorted by context: I am shown explaining that a warming ocean could expel more carbon dioxide than it absorbs -- thus exacerbating the greenhouse gas buildup in the atmosphere and hence worrisome. It was used in the film, through its context, to imply that CO2 is all natural, coming from the ocean, and that therefore the human element is irrelevant. This use of my remarks, which are literally what I said, comes close to fraud. At a minimum, I ask that the film should never be seen again publicly with my participation included. Channel 4 surely owes an apology to its viewers, and perhaps WAGTV owes something to Channel 4. I will be taking advice as to whether I should proceed to make some more formal protest." Full article here: http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2347526.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipbuttie Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 That wasn't your question. You asked if it was man made. Contributing is actually a no. I did actually use the word 'responsible' as well in post no.1. Okay we all know the planets temprature has always fluctuated. There have been numerous Ice Ages, the planet warmed and the planet has cooled. I am specificaly talking about man made global warming ie use of fossil fuels. Mans contribution not mother earths, is the issue. If we are contributing to the warming that should be a YES as we are warming the planet. We are not trying to decide who is more responsible-earth versus man,only if global warming is caused by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Yes I agree,we are 'contributing' to the point that we have broken the camels back. Surley 'contributing' is a YES! Come on Joe,please vote either way, no fence sitting now. Nope, contributing is not being responsible for. My first degree was Biochemistry, and I still consider myself a scientist. So, the evidence of my own reading over the last 10 years or so (yes, I've had an interest for that long) is that we're screwing the place up but we're not totally responsible. Our contributions to a non-linear system may push climate to a new 'state', but we're not responsible - just stupid. We need to understand the systems we're messing with - and at the moment we don't have a level of understanding adequate to totally see what's happening. But I think it is safe to assume we contriobute in many, many ways; CO2, methane and other greenhouse gasses is just one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipbuttie Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Nope, contributing is not being responsible for. My first degree was Biochemistry, and I still consider myself a scientist. So, the evidence of my own reading over the last 10 years or so (yes, I've had an interest for that long) is that we're screwing the place up but we're not totally responsible. Our contributions to a non-linear system may push climate to a new 'state', but we're not responsible - just stupid. If I 'contribute' a post to this forum,and then the posts on the thread are counted,I would be 'responsible' for one of them. When you say we are not totally responsible,do you mean that we should blame our home the planet? The planet has been pretty much in fragile balance untill we began to exploit carbon based fuels. You'll know if you are down with Lovelock that our stupid use of this relativly recent discovery of this energy source has proved to be the most destructive age since humans have been on the planet. Humans not living in harmony with our planet is whats causing the problem. So therefore our stupid contribution is man made, even though it did come from the earth in the first place, we have used carbon based fossil fuel irresponsibly thus causing MORE global warming than mother nature has. We are not all stupid. there are plenty of ways to reverse global warming.(the man made contributions anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayfish Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 We're pushing things along faster than they'd otherwise be going and possibly ultimately further, but the world would still be warming without us. It's not something that can be accurately boiled down to a yes/no question. I've voted yes though as I believe we are making global warming a problem that could be important in our generation or the next and accelerating the natural warming process to a degree that will make it more ecologically damaging than it otherwise would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 If I 'contribute' a post to this forum,and then the posts on the thread are counted,I would be 'responsible' for one of them. When you say we are not totally responsible,do you mean that we should blame our home the planet? The planet has been pretty much in fragile balance untill we began to exploit carbon based fuels. You'll know if you are down with Lovelock that our stupid use of this relativly recent discovery of this energy source has proved to be the most destructive age since humans have been on the planet. Humans not living in harmony with our planet is whats causing the problem. So therefore our stupid contribution is man made, even though it did come from the earth in the first place, we have used carbon based fossil fuel irresponsibly thus causing MORE global warming than mother nature has. We are not all stupid. there are plenty of ways to reverse global warming. I've been 'down with Lovelock' since his work with NASA on detectors for the Mars probes. Maybe 15 years ago I was playing with Daisyworld simulators, and thats' why I say 'We are contributing, not causing. The planet warms istelf and cools itself, and maintains a viable biosphere for all species. We are not living in harmony with this planet, and we have caused problems.' We need to pull our socks up for sure, but I maintain - we are contributing to, not responsible for. The issue isn't who's to blame, it's what the Hell are we going to do to fix it. And the way to get people on board is to stop the finger pointing and start appreciating that we contribute, we cannot survive by going 'cold turkey' on a carbon based economy, we need to control and reduce our contributions. But I cannot Vote Yes on this Poll - that's all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wentypence Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 The meat farming industry (man made) is a big contribution to Global Warming for numerous reasons... One doesnt farm meat, one farms animals from which meat is derived you know. Show some respect for the creatures that feed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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