Halibut Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Talk about nit picking. She went home. FACT. She was vomiting. FACT. It does not say she had a fight with her boyfriend on the doorstep. FACT She will have got into bed. FACT. At some stage during the night she will have fallen asleep. FACT. At some later stage she will have woken up. FACT. Where do we read that she said or indicated "No, get off me, do not touch me? If she was asleep or insensible through alcohol the guy would have been raping her whether or not she ever said 'no'. Do you not see that Graham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I've not read the whole thread because I knew it'd make me angry ... but is this same Grahame that is always preaching religion to us all? But now seems to be an apologist for a rapist? Hmmmmm! Not at all. I would have walked away long before it got to that stage and hopefully left her in the company of a girl friend. The fact they went back to her place alone, indicates it was mutual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 If she was asleep or insensible through alcohol the guy would have been raping her whether or not she ever said 'no'. Do you not see that Graham? Don't talk to me in that patronising tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bago Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Talk about nit picking. She went home. FACT. She was vomiting. FACT. It does not say she had a fight with her boyfriend on the doorstep. FACT She will have got into bed. FACT. At some stage during the night she will have fallen asleep. FACT. At some later stage she will have woken up. FACT. Where do we read that she said or indicated "No, get off me, do not touch me? She went back to her Halls. Fact. She did vomit, and hence whey she went home. Most probably. Fact. It does not say that Mr Bree was her bf. Fact. It did not say that she got into bed. Fact. She said that her memory was "patchy". (Due to the alcohol perhaps?) Fact. She must've fallen asleep yes. Fact. She woke up in the midst of the act. Fact. She claimed that she did not want any partake of the sexual act. Fact. "I knew I didn't want this but I didn't know how to go about stopping it". Fact The latter sentence meant she did not want it to happen. So where did it say that she consented? Is she in a state to consent anyway, even when the alcohol has affected her so much that she went and vomit? Doesn't the vomitting indicates as to how much the alcohol must have affected her conscious mind? This is what I don't get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Before you make more assumption Grahame, I think you ought to read the newspaper article more closely. Mr Bree was not the victim's boyfriend, it seems. The article mentioned that they went back to her halls of residence. As a woman, and if I was drunk, I would hope that a good friend would drag me home, and not to do anything to me. One hopes. (Thinking back, I had great friends! Seriously... if that is how men today behaves.) She mentioned that when she woke, she was in the middle of the sex act. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23390405-details/It's+not+always+rape+if+a+woman+is+drunk,+says+judge/article.do His word of "seemed keen" dismissed his own action. Do you feel that is right? It seems that the guy actually has a long-term gf and life. So it bears in question, and you do question, whether he was out for a ONS. In which case, it meant that possible intent of sex was on his mind. If the woman did not have intent to do the same, where does that leave her? http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=444805&in_page_id=1770 You are right in what you say Bago, you always are. And I think in the end it boils down to one persons word against another. Seeing as none of us were there all we can do is to look at the situation? When I observe people I notice that women always seem to go around in groups and the fact these two had separated themselves off from the crowd, and the fact he was in her room willingly indicates a degree of consent don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 The fact they went back to her place alone, indicates it was mutual. What rubbish, she was living in halls, not some secluded private flat ... I'm going off this thread, but I'll just say that anyone that will make excuses for some lowlife that has sex with an unconcious woman wants to take a long look at his/her attitudes. Anything could have happened to her, she could have got pregnant, got HIV, any sort of disease ... a man who'll have sex with an insensible drunk, won't have much duty of care towards either him or herself, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 [MOD NOTE] This is an emotive topic on which there will be many different varying points of view. Please respect other peoples point of view and debate the topic. If you are feeling het up about a post then take a deep breath and count to 10 before posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 She went back to her Halls. Fact. She did vomit, and hence whey she went home. Most probably. Fact. It does not say that Mr Bree was her bf. Fact. It did not say that she got into bed. Fact. She said that her memory was "patchy". (Due to the alcohol perhaps?) Fact. She must've fallen asleep yes. Fact. She woke up in the midst of the act. Fact. She claimed that she did not want any partake of the sexual act. Fact. "I knew I didn't want this but I didn't know how to go about stopping it". Fact The latter sentence meant she did not want it to happen. So where did it say that she consented? Is she in a state to consent anyway, even when the alcohol has affected her so much that she went and vomit? Doesn't the vomitting indicates as to how much the alcohol must have affected her conscious mind? This is what I don't get... "Claimed" being the operative word here don't you think? When she says she didn't know how to stop it, that's just too ridiculous for words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 When I observe people I notice that women always seem to go around in groups and the fact these two had separated themselves off from the crowd, and the fact he was in her room willingly indicates a degree of consent don't you think? I find it deeply worrying that you feel that the fact that these two people were seperate from the crowd and that he was in her room indicates a degree of consent. It doesn't. It just doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I've not read the whole thread because I knew it'd make me angry ... likewise. The majority of people who are raped don't report it. Of the very small minority of cases that are reported, a small percentage of these ever get to court. Of the cases that get to court, only a minority result in a conviction. I suppose using the logic applied by some people on SF there is a case for abandoning all rape laws on the grounds that so few are ever convicted - and even then some (like this one) are overturned on appeal. Just because a breach of the law is difficult to prove and there are so many shades of grey - doesn't mean there hasn't been a breach of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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