Ridiculous rape laws...

[mikey10]

absolute nonsense. the justice system is at fault, whether that be in failing to catch women who falsly accuse men of rape (how do you know there's a lot of this happening?), or failing to convict men who rape women.

 

Why should a womans word have more worth than a mans? My nephew was accused of rape by a girlfriend. She broke down in the witness box and admitted she made it up because he dumped him. She was away scot free, he had his reputation and nerves ruined. Women need to look at other women who are making it difficult to convict, thats all im saying.

[Bago]

Bago I respect the things you say and most of the time completely agree with you, but you seriously can't think that this sort of thing never happens. Crying Wolf does happen as cases of this come to light when the girl suddenly grows a conscience and admits that the whole things was a lie. I completely agree that rape is a horrible and sickening thing to happen to anyone male or female. The difficulty is we can't just go around prosecuting people on some ones say so. That would undermine the entire basis of our legal system.

Ok, for argument sake, let's assume that the concept of "crying wolf" can exist. Yet, you have to remember that it is the victim who wishes to prosecute. So why would the victim want to prosecute, and therefore incriminate herself in the process? Why would she go through the humiliating process of being tested, and also of being reminded of the act itself? Do you actually know that rape cases actually do not even reach as far as the testing stages? Most probably cannot bring themselves that far emotionally to even go through with the processing of the case. What does she gain out of it ?

 

Ok, let's even assume that she is doing this out of malicious intent, but why would she put herself through the legal processing? What will she gain at the end of it? Apart from being publically humiliated?

 

When "the girl grows a conscience", as you so say, to me may happen because if a girl does not want to put herself through the emotional rollercoaster of being probed and judged like that. She will and may retract her case. However, this action should not be judged as the guy not raped her. Just because she may retracted it, does not mean that she did not felt she was injust.

 

If she retracted it, I can only believe that 1) possibly to protect herself, and 2) maybe also to protect the guy from embarrassment or humilation. However much she did hate him. On the surface, Joe Public may think, she "grew a conscience", but the justice and injustice of it all, is how the individuals are affected by it.

[evildrneil]

I don't think that babychickens was saying that a womans word should have more worth than a mans - just that failures are down to the justice system whether that be catching and prosecuting false accusers or perpetrators? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[Bago]

From personal experience I would have to say this is rubbish! Women are just as capable of dissociating sex from any emotion as men.

 

As to this case, you have two people who have been drinking heavily how can anyone possibly say that consent (drunken consent but still consent) was not given?

Rubbish? So when you have sex, you don't have any emotions? Oh, I see...

 

As to the case, there are two people who have had a drink. I don't know about you, but I would've thought that consent means from an emotional but with a hint of rational in the decision. In this case, it said that the girl was asleep. What do you think of that then?

[mikey10]

I don't think that babychickens was saying that a womans word should have more worth than a mans - just that failures are down to the justice system whether that be catching and prosecuting false accusers or perpetrators? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

i never said she did, its what im saying though!

[babychickens]

I don't think that babychickens was saying that a womans word should have more worth than a mans - just that failures are down to the justice system whether that be catching and prosecuting false accusers or perpetrators? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

i certainly wasn't suggesting that a woman's word is worth more in a rape case than a man's. given that the rates for successful convictions in rape cases have dropped over the last 30 years, i'd say exactly the opposite - the word of the accusing woman is worth less than that of the defending man, and becoming worth even less as the justice systems relies increasingly on evidence rather than heresay.

 

i'm very sorry that your nephew was falsly accused of rape, but that hardly means that a lot women who accuse a man of rape are doing so with nothing firmer than a nasty vendetta in mind. personally i imagine that most women who put themselves through the public shame of a rape trial, not to mention the well-documented mysogynism of the police, and the indignity of having their person intimately examined, are doing it because they have been raped. given how much coverage there has been in the press recently about how many women who go to the police alleging rape are 'encouraged' to drop their charges when they should have been pursued, i imagine the women who actually get to court are very much the tip of the iceberg, and not even all of them will get a conviction.

 

mikey10, i would ask you again to qualify your remark that there seems to be 'a lot of women falsly claiming rape because of some grudge'. unless you can support a comment like that, you should probably keep it to yourself; what you have said is belittling to women who have made rape allegations, which, as i have said, i suspect to be a very unpleasant experience for the woman to go through. just because your personal experience of rape has been taht of crying wolf, it doens't mean that most other cases are the same.

[squidge00]

Ok, for argument sake, let's assume that the concept of "crying wolf" can exist. Yet, you have to remember that it is the victim who wishes to prosecute. So why would the victim want to prosecute, and therefore incriminate herself in the process? Why would she go through the humiliating process of being tested, and also of being reminded of the act itself? Do you actually know that rape cases actually do not even reach as far as the testing stages? Most probably cannot bring themselves that far emotionally to even go through with the processing of the case. What does she gain out of it ?

 

Ok, let's even assume that she is doing this out of malicious intent, but why would she put herself through the legal processing? What will she gain at the end of it? Apart from being publically humiliated?

 

When "the girl grows a conscience", as you so say, to me may happen because if a girl does not want to put herself through the emotional rollercoaster of being probed and judged like that. She will and may retract her case. However, this action should not be judged as the guy not raped her. Just because she may retracted it, does not mean that she did not felt she was injust.

 

If she retracted it, I can only believe that 1) possibly to protect herself, and 2) maybe also to protect the guy from embarrassment or humilation. However much she did hate him. On the surface, Joe Public may think, she "grew a conscience", but the justice and injustice of it all, is how the individuals are affected by it.

 

Hurray for Bago for speaking sense. I find it appalling the way that people focus on girls that 'cry wolf' more than they do the girls that are raped and the man gets away with it. The focus is all wrong. We should be lookjng at ways to supporting victims and making the message clear that sex without consent is wrong and there is absolutely no excuse for it, and nor does anyone ever 'deserve' it. Why do we excuse men who can't control themselves or make a rational decision about whether or not they should have sex with a women who hasn't given her permission?

[liam1412]

Ok, for argument sake, let's assume that the concept of "crying wolf" can exist. Yet, you have to remember that it is the victim who wishes to prosecute. So why would the victim want to prosecute, and therefore incriminate herself in the process? Why would she go through the humiliating process of being tested, and also of being reminded of the act itself? Do you actually know that rape cases actually do not even reach as far as the testing stages? Most probably cannot bring themselves that far emotionally to even go through with the processing of the case. What does she gain out of it ?

 

Ok, let's even assume that she is doing this out of malicious intent, but why would she put herself through the legal processing? What will she gain at the end of it? Apart from being publically humiliated?

 

When "the girl grows a conscience", as you so say, to me may happen because if a girl does not want to put herself through the emotional rollercoaster of being probed and judged like that. She will and may retract her case. However, this action should not be judged as the guy not raped her. Just because she may retracted it, does not mean that she did not felt she was injust.

 

If she retracted it, I can only believe that 1) possibly to protect herself, and 2) maybe also to protect the guy from embarrassment or humilation. However much she did hate him. On the surface, Joe Public may think, she "grew a conscience", but the justice and injustice of it all, is how the individuals are affected by it.

 

But what your saying is no one lies to the law. I am sure there have been cases of people changing their minds, either through forgiveness, Stupidity or both. If a girl has been genuinely raped then the whole case being brought to light in the media etc would be agaonising. If, however the case is some kind of revenge then the true humiliation is not there.

 

We all know that being raped is nothing to be ashamed of. There are people that are reading this thread that would say 'If it happened to me i'd make sure the ******* did time'. These women are confident and can hold there own and in normal circumstances would. After a rape has occured however, every bit of self confidence and self worth has been drained from them. It is this that causes the woman to be ashamed and to not pursue a conviction.If, however the whole thing is a lie then there was nothing to kill every bit of drive in the girl.

 

I suppose what im trying to say is, a liar would not be putting her self through shame as the shame is wrongly brought upon by the events that occured.

[evildrneil]

Rubbish? So when you have sex, you don't have any emotions? Oh, I see...

 

Try reading what I actually wrote...

 

As to the case, there are two people who have had a drink. I don't know about you, but I would've thought that consent means from an emotional but with a hint of rational in the decision. In this case, it said that the girl was asleep. What do you think of that then?

 

In this case the girl claimed she was asleep - were not talking about 'had a drink'. The comment was "The girl drank between four and six vodka Red Bulls and two pints of cider and Mr Bree was also drinking heavily." Is any evidence given by people who were in that state going to be definite enough to put anyone away?

 

I would say there is a HUGE difference between two people get rat-arsed and end up in bed together (as seems to be the case here - thats at worst a sh*t happens event for which both people equally carry the can) and sober person preys on drunken and insensible person which is definitely rape whether they consent or not...

[Darbees]

Ok, for argument sake, let's assume that the concept of "crying wolf" can exist. Yet, you have to remember that it is the victim who wishes to prosecute. So why would the victim want to prosecute, and therefore incriminate herself in the process? Why would she go through the humiliating process of being tested, and also of being reminded of the act itself? Do you actually know that rape cases actually do not even reach as far as the testing stages? Most probably cannot bring themselves that far emotionally to even go through with the processing of the case. What does she gain out of it ?

 

Ok, let's even assume that she is doing this out of malicious intent, but why would she put herself through the legal processing? What will she gain at the end of it? Apart from being publically humiliated?

 

When "the girl grows a conscience", as you so say, to me may happen because if a girl does not want to put herself through the emotional rollercoaster of being probed and judged like that. She will and may retract her case. However, this action should not be judged as the guy not raped her. Just because she may retracted it, does not mean that she did not felt she was injust.

 

If she retracted it, I can only believe that 1) possibly to protect herself, and 2) maybe also to protect the guy from embarrassment or humilation. However much she did hate him. On the surface, Joe Public may think, she "grew a conscience", but the justice and injustice of it all, is how the individuals are affected by it.

You're presuming that everyone who complains they have been raped has been but that is not the reality and crying rape for malicious, vindictive reasons is also a common crime so each case has to tried on the facts and nothing else.