School Children's Finger Prints Taken Without Consent!

[pedr]

If a fingerprint can generate a unique code (it has to be unique to be of any value). Then a print lifted from a crime scene can have the same algorithm run and the code generated can then be compared with what is in the database.

 

It's pretty damn obvious that the process is repeatable otherwise it would have even less value than it currently does.

This may be true. It isn't necessarily true. I, personally, doubt it.

 

The reason it isn't necessarily true is that there is a difference between the process of digitising a fingerprint to a resolution which can be compared against the lower resolution/quality print lifted from an item and the process of scanning a finger so that when the finger is scanned a second time the same result is found.

 

The first is comparing two different samples, taken as physical images. The second is comparing the exact same data retrieval method.

 

Like I said, I could be wrong. But my assertions are more likely technologically than the alternative (and less costly in terms of processing and storage costs) so I remain to be convinced that this is a genuine threat in any meaningful sense.

[mrplodge]

I see no problem. If parents would spend more time stopping their kids smashing bus shelters etc rather than worrying about this we would all be a lot better off.

[irenewilde]

[quote=fred_notdead;2160191

ITS JUST A GAME

At one primary school children were told "Lets play the game of spies. Its just a game, so theres no need to tell your parents."

 

I absolutely do not believe this. Even if you thought for a moment that any teacher would try this, you're not trying to tell me that most of the children wouldn't go home and tell their parents anyway! You'd have to be daft to think you'd get away with it!

[Pooch_1]

Technology is going that way and there's nothing we can do to stop it.. have your children done something wrong? are they hiding from the police? in not what s the problem please?

 

by the time the kids are our age, nearly everything will be finger print

 

people dont like change its nothing to do withthe kids, just an excuse to moan about something else (OP not you just people in general)

 

The problem is the infringement of their personal and human rights. Before minors or non compus mentus people are photographed, then either the parents consent must be given in the case of children, or a relative or advocate of the non compus mentus person. we used to have to go through that rigmarole when we wanted to photograph vulnerable patients at the hospital, for identification reasons, should they wander off, or be in the wrong room when medication was given out. I am appalled and disgusted at the councils education department for allowing this to happen.

[melthebell]

I am appalled and disgusted at the councils education department for allowing this to happen.

but its a government directive innit? not a council one, i heard ALL schools would be asked to do it, not just sheffield ones

[Cyclone]

but its a government directive innit? not a council one, i heard ALL schools would be asked to do it, not just sheffield ones

 

No it isn't.

In fact the DFE have given out guidelines advising schools not to use such technology without seeking informed consent.

[cgksheff]

No it isn't.

In fact the DFE have given out guidelines advising schools not to use such technology without seeking informed consent.

 

Damn!!!

 

Bloody facts getting in the way of a load of ****e!!!

[Cyclone]

I know, it's a shame.

The reason schools are so keen on the idea is that they've found out that they can use certain grants to get the hardware for free, and the tech companies that provide the equipment have played along (as technically they are probably in breach of guidelines of how to spend the money).

 

Not one school has managed to really justify why they need this technology.

Registriation, library book issue and dinner purchasing have worked just fine without hundreds of thousands being spent in every school for probably over a century. This is very much a case of a solution which needs a problem inventing to justify it's use.

[nick2]

Do we have a name of the school yet ?

[AtticusFinch]

Why not?

 

A person always has their finger. A person does not always have a card. Cards can be lost. Cards can be stolen, if people think there's any value in them. Working on name and form group is time-consuming and can be fraudulent - particularly if this is used for the school meals issue I highlighted above. And make no mistake, bullying based on free school meals status is a problem, as is the theft of dinner money.

 

The system has potential added advantages. When I was at school, a register was taken twice a day. My mother is a high-school teacher and has to take a register (using a computer) for every class she teaches. I imagine that this is to better track attendance and combat truanting. Using a self-scan system reduces the teacher-time required for that register.

 

Now I have no real inside knowledge on this - I'm just trying to keep this on a factual basis and question some of the reactionary statements particularly in the linked piece which started the debate. If I am in error anywhere, I'd love to know - I just like things like this to be debated from the starting point of the facts

 

You can't surely be suggesting that a complicated system with fingerprint scanners, a suitably robust algorithm to match candidate fingerprints, a database to store fingerprints, several PCs to manage the scheme, a contract with a software firm to provide it and regular support from that company is a more efficient and cost-effective system than a laminated card with the child's photo on?

 

Not only that but what drives the demand for this problem? If a few people steal books from a library then the library loses a small amount of money to replace those books. Most likely, there's an amount in their budget to cover those losses, just as shops put aside an amount each year to cover shoplifting. Would the amount of stolen books be greater than the cost of implementing this system?