Deerobe Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 My point is that if a pre pay/validate system fails on a tram that (at the time didn't have conductors but did have inspectors) what makes anyone think that it will work on a bus. You will have massive fair dodging going on and the scheme will be cancelled. Why should something that works somewhere else not work in Sheffield. What makes users of transport in Sheffield (or any large city) different to users of transport in London? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Since a similar scheme already failed I don't really need to understand why to predict the same result again... But I'll guess at a combination of stupidity and sheer bloody mindedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwish Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I work i London during the week and the Oyster is saving me a minimum of a £3 per day over the cost of paying cash. I think that is a pretty good discount personally. On the docklands light railway there are no barriers so it is easy to forget to touch in and out. If I forget I get charged £4 instead of £2.50. My cash fare would be £8 per day, with Oyster is is £5. (I travel all the way across London for this from Perivale to Canary Wharf a distance of about 17 miles) Some train companies already accept Oyster withing the TFL travel Zones and soon all trains will be converting to Oyster within the same area. I think Ken Livingstone made the rail companies an offer they could not refuse by offering to cover part of the cost of installing the Oyster card readers and top up machines. What is really great about it is if there is a problem you simply swap to another route touching you Oyster as you go. You don't get charged any more money than you would have paid on your normal route. Children of parents (or a parent) living in London have a special Oyster, free travel on the bus and a maximum of £2 per day on other transport. I am not sure children out of London have to pay but I think my son pays the £2 max per day. His father gets him an oyster from his address in London so my son can use the bus for free. Ticket inspectors have a machine that reads whether the oyster has been swiped to enter the system. they cannot see they just have a green or red light. They have loads of inspectors on parts of the system with no barriers and my oyster is checked at leas twice a week on the DLR. Many buses do not allow you to pay onboard you have to either buy a ticket from the machine or have an Oyster. Londoners were getting so fed up with the bus stopping for ages at every stop while the driver messes around with fares they loved it when the oyster was brought in. I love the Oyster because you just put cash on and if you make several journeys it stops charging you after you have reached the equivalent daily travel card rate. You can top up your Oyster online or at any Oyster top up machine. You can can top up £50 at a time (this lasts me two weeks). I do mine online from my bedroom in Sheffield. Barclays bank are launching a new credit card that is also an Oyster and shops in Canary Wharf are going to have oyster readers so you will be able to pay for small items like chewing gum and news papers without having to use cash. They are currently sorting out some people to trial it in Canary Wharf then it eill go all over London once they have finished. After That will be a debit card version. To reduce the risk of fraud they will only allow purchases to a maximum of £10. I wish we had it here in Sheffield because when I travel into the city centre on a Monday morning the bus spends more time stationary at bus stops than moving because it takes the driver ages to deal with the fares and reading the tickets. It is so slow and really frustrating. Yes at first people will still fumble about, but now everyone uses the Oyster they like the fact the bus gets going faster and they dont have to queue to buy tickets. Men seem to keep theirsin their wallet and just touch the wallet on the reader (my son does this) I have a seperate Oyster wallet and keep it in my pocket. I don't leave home without it! yes this card is all you have put its just great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerobe Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Since a similar scheme already failed I don't really need to understand why to predict the same result again... But I'll guess at a combination of stupidity and sheer bloody mindedness. Your response made me roar with laughter!!! Are you a native of Yorkshire? Ummmmm and stuck in the 80s by any chance??? People can change it is possible. I believe so anyway. Mind you I am an idealist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d71146 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 'First and Stagecoach don't run any buses over 4 years of age', you are kidding surely, I've seen First Buses M and K reg in the last three months. M and K reg they are quite new compared to over in Rotherham loads of H Reg (1989-1990) vehicles running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Your response made me roar with laughter!!! Are you a native of Yorkshire? Ummmmm and stuck in the 80s by any chance??? People can change it is possible. I believe so anyway. Mind you I am an idealist.... Yes, I'm from Sheffield. In the 80's though I was getting a childs fare, and it was probably the late 80's before I ever caught a bus at 10p on my own. People can change. But the supertram has only been here 10 years and an almost identical scheme failed then. What has changed in 10 years that will make it succeed now? Oyster works well in London, I have an oyster card myself, but time will tell whether I'm right or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmunich Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 A lot has changed in ten years, the use of the internet for one, chip and pin, mobile phone top ups, shopping and paying bills online etc. Validating your tram ticket or Sheffield Travel card into a machine is just one piece of technology that would make everyone's life a bit easier. Nottingham has a scheme where you buy and validate your tram/bus ticket without conductors, exactly why wouldn't that work 40 miles up the M1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerobe Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 A lot has changed in ten years, the use of the internet for one, chip and pin, mobile phone top ups, shopping and paying bills online etc. Validating your tram ticket or Sheffield Travel card into a machine is just one piece of technology that would make everyone's life a bit easier. Nottingham has a scheme where you buy and validate your tram/bus ticket without conductors, exactly why wouldn't that work 40 miles up the M1? A lot has changed in the past 10 years. I used to carry a lot of cash on me, now I only need it to pay bus and tram fares in Sheffield. When I am in London I don't use cash at all. Everything is paid for using debit cards (food, accommodation etc.), Eros prepay card (evening papers) and Oyster (transport). Personally I feel a lot safer not carrying money around with me. Whether or not people think prepay systems won't work they will come eventually. Banks are pressing forward with plans to get rid of cash and are exploring a number of options including debits via mobile phone. This means that they will over the next few years continually increase bank charges for cash handling until the operators decide it is cheaper to change to a cashless system. It is up to the operators to make it work in terms of dealing with fare dodgers but they should be doing that anyway, whether they use cash or perepay. We are using technology all the time in our daily lives. I would say in London the only real problem with fare evasion is the bendy buses and the DLR where passengers do not validate their travel as they pass the driver or entry barriers. This is dealt with by inspectors on the DLR and there are many of them. I used to get inspected at least 4 times a week when I was working at Canary Wharf. The bendy buses are the main issue with regard to fare dodging. Transport for London are looking at the problem and how to combat it. Since Sheffield has no bendy buses it should be easier to introduce a cashless system of fare payment. My main bone of contention is how difficult it can be obtaining the correct ticket for the type of journeys you wish to make. In this day and age I should not have to get a bus to the interchange to buy certain tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I've caught the canary wharf DLR quite often and never once been or seen anyone inspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parapou Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 People can change. But the supertram has only been here 10 years and an almost identical scheme failed then. What has changed in 10 years that will make it succeed now? What will make a difference is implementation, explanation and enforcement. The tram validation system wasn't clearly explained, the ticket machines often didn't work, and didn't give change, nor give the full range of fares and yes, people took a gamble on whether they'd get caught if they didn't pay or 'forgot' to validate. Validating a prepaid card or season ticket is different in a number of respects - and as other posters have commented the world has moved on and people are used to prepaid mobiles and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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