Who Remembers The Wapentake?

[darra]

I have got an uncle who lives in Lehrte. My grandad was the headmaster of the school in Hover. We used to spend the 6 weeks holidays there. Look forward to reading your posts

[zakes]

Nah then, Bayern Blade – post 859. (and for others to read if so desired).

 

I’ll have to wetch out with this response to your post, there is little in it about the Wapentake and, or persons who frequented it, except me. If you find this post to be too long feel free to read it in shifts... You shouldn’t have mentioned Hildesheim and Hannover. Lol.

 

That you are a Blade is good, because I always preferred United over the others from the dork side of town, Hillsborough not Grenoside.lol. I Support Wolves and have done so since 1964, my second team is Blades. I first saw the Blades.. v Arsenal 2 - 2 draw on a freezing day in November 1963. It was the first match I’d been to. It was so cold that day that even the footballers were running about, trying to keep warm.

 

Anyrooad up, Hildesheim is a place I often visited, mainly evenings. Live music in the Be bop on Rottsberg (Rotzberg lol )- late 70s to mid 80s. The Be bop was situated up a very steep hill overlooking Hildesheim. It was an exhausting foot – march to get up that ‘mountain’ (especially in winter) from the City centre. Oxygen masks at the ready. lol. More about the Be bop anon.

 

Hildesheim, I believe, was nicknamed by many locals as, ‘im Potte’ , not to be confused with Kohlenpott (ruhrgebiet), due to the city being in a type of ‘bowl’ with splendid forests (Hildesheimer Wald) to the south of the city. I recall there were many churches in Hildesheim. I liked the cathedral (Dom), St Michaels and St Andreas’ architecture wise. The over 1,000 years old rosebush was a beautiful sight when in bloom. During WW2 Hildesheim took a serious pounding, but most of it was re – built in its original style, as were many German towns and cities. Maybe the planners of Sheffield City Corporation should take a look at Hildesheim and other German cities. They might just learn how to do proper planning and building.

 

Hildesheim is the birthplace of the Schenker brothers, Rudolf and Michael of Scorpions fame, (Lonesome Crow, their best album). Their sister, Barbara (in the group Viva), was born in Sarstedt,*which, as you know, is just up the road atween Hildesheim and Hannover. An acquaintance of mine from that time (Thomas Martin) lived in Sarstedt. Martin managed Scorpions, Viva, Ruphus (Norwegian band), Pete York’s New York (ex Spencer Davis Group), and others.

 

When I went to the Be bop, which mainly put on Rock, Fusion, Jazz, New Wave, DJ and film evenings, I often got almost kaylied. lol. Knowing there were no trains running at that time (well beyond midnight) back to my town...kernstadt Lehrte, I used to stay at the Weisse Schwan Hotel for bed and breakfast, which cost about DM20. I booked and paid for my room afore going on the lash at the Bebop. Bands playing at the Bebop often stayed at this basic hotel (no bar). This gave me opportunity to pal –up with the musicians before a gig, which often got me free entry to gigs and a lift up to the show, and back to the hotel afterwards if I wished. I usually declined the offer of a lift back because I preferred to stay in the Be bop to continue suppin’. It was a super atmosphere in the Be bop. On other occassions I’d travel to the Be bop by car with mates from Lehrte, and another lad from Sehnde. I sometimes travelled direct to Hildesheim from my place of work, in Hannover.

 

The Be bop...address Wilhelmshoehe, was a cafe (Tee stube) by day, a pub and music venue by night(evenings). The Be bop had room for circa 800 visitors, but the usual live music attendances were about 400 plus. Some evenings it was packed out. Admission and drink prices were not rip-off prices. Apart from the music, there was pinball, table football, pool, electronic games, mankin’ and the suppin of Wolters beer (Braunschweiger Brewery).

 

The two drawbacks for me at the Be bop were:

 

1. Hard drugs (but not on a grand scale IMO)

2. British squaddies occasionally turning up to cause trouble.

 

The Be bop on Rottsberg closed its doors for good in 1985-86ish due to...I believe:

1. Hard drugs

2. Because posh houses were built nearby for posh people. These posh people constantly complained, and made a ‘song and dance’ about loud music coming from the Be bop. What do posh people who move near to a music venue expect... monastic silence?!

 

The Be bop moved to a new site, in the north of Hildesheim, a former picture palace.

 

Some of the gigs I went to at the original Bebop, in no particular order were:

 

EMBRYO, NITS, EPITAPH, GRUPPO SPORTIVO, ALPHONSE MOUZON, COS, JOE COCKER, JAN AKKERMAN, HERMAN BROOD, JASPER VAN’T HOF, JOHN ABERCROMBIE, INGA RUMPF, JOACHIM KUEHN, PHILIP CATHERINE, CAN, EDGAR BROUGHTON BAND, TRI ATMA, JAN HAMMER, JACK BRUCE, STANLEY CLARKE, FRED BANANA COMBO. And others. More Pics to come when I find them.

 

At the new Be bop, I saw among others:

Giant Sand - 1990s, Peter Hammill (ex Van Der Graaf Generator)1990s.

 

The music at the ‘new’ Be bop in Steuerwalder Strasse, was becoming too lightweight for me, so I stopped going to gigs. I wasn’t too bothered about it though, because there were loads of venues on the musikszene in Hannover... which was nearer to Lehrte than Hildesheim was.

There have been 2 books written (in German) by Brigitte and Juergen Tast, about the history of the Be bop, I’d love to have ‘em.

 

Extra:

 

Some of the music venues I visited in Hannover at one time or another:

Jazz Club Am Lindener Berg, Leine Domicil, Floh Zirkus, Musik Zirkus, Capitol, Palo Palo, Pavillon, Daunstairs (Langenhagen), Tanzpalast Friedenstal(later Bel –Air)-Anderten/Misburg, MusikTheater Bad, Offenbach’s Keller, Rotation (closed down 1988ish), Country and Western Club lol. Vahrenwalder Strasse, Musikpalast....and others.

 

For larger gigs:

 

Kuppelsaal, Eilenriede Halle, Beethoven Halle, Stadthalle, Theatre am Aegi .... and more.

As a key-holder at work (Bertelsman Club Center), I’d sleep there at times on the floor, or on a table, in the warehouse behind the shop after boozy gigs.lol.

 

I very much enjoyed my 15 or so years in Germoney, and it was a stupid idea to return to Sheffield (hindsight). I’d willingly swap homes with you, Bayern (or Niedersachsen lol) Blade. Its high-time Lehrte, Hildesheim and Hannover had the pleasure of meeting me once again. Lol.

 

 

All the above is an abridged version of what I wanted to say (type) due to me being almost out of ink. lol. (Ontonian).

 

 

 

 

 

While on the subject of music, my next proper gig visit will be Focus, at the Picturedrome, Holmfirth, Sunday, 25/11/2018. Bed & Breakfast is already booked. Yippee!!!

 

“Back on topic”!! I hear the Moddies cry. Lol

 

P.S. Darra, Isle reply to you soon. All good things come slowly.

Edited September 22, 2018 by zakes

[Bayern Blade]

Hi zakes, interesting to read your post and I'll reply at length tomorrow but just letting you know that I live on Steuerwalder strasse near Be Bop 2 and went in there a few times.

Btw did you know the May brothers Dominic, Thomas and Martin (not squaddies) ? They were Be Bop regulars.

[zakes]

Ey up Darra (Frank?). post861.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for keeping you waiting for my response to your post. I had compewter problems.

 

I find it somewhat embarrassing to be drifting away from the Wapentake, but other posters have also from time to time gone off topic. . look through the thread. At least I’ve mentioned Wapentake twice already on this pooast lol.

 

1. Anywhey, I'm intrigued by your mention of having an uncle living in Lehrte. Your uncle must be getting on because I guess you to be at the age of early 60s. Its a pity you didn't mention your uncle's name because there's a decent chance I'd know him from all those years ago. I say this because I was often out and about in the Lehrte community. I was known at most of the shops, and also at every drinking-hole in the area. I also attended the home matches of the two local football teams, FC Lehrte, and Lehrte 06. I was also to be seen at the Saturday market, and also in the restaurants of Lehrte. Do you recall the name of the road your uncle lives on? My first address in Lehrte was Germania Strasse. I later moved to Wilhelm-Busch-Strasse.

 

I also met many of the Lehrte public during election campaigns locally, regionally and nationally. This is because I was a very active member of the SPD (Labour) party, and I attended almost all of the SPD meetings when a member during my time in Lehrte, (a) because I was interested in left of centre politics, (b) the opportunity to make more friends, and to improve my German (not just building site German lol). I enrolled in the SPD in September 1982. My party book 1 2 3. I've deliberately missed out showing name in photo 3 because I wish to remain an 'international man of mystery' lol, although some people on SF know me personally already, including some on this thread.

 

At the time of joining the SPD, i was under the age of 35, which meant I automatically became a member of the Jung Sozialisten (Young Socialists) -Jusos, the youth wing of the SPD. We Jusos were quite a radical bunch, doing loads of radical things (at times embarrassing our own mother party).

 

(A) We once worked hand-in-hand with some of the Green party members, checking, following and spying on farmers, to see if they were (weren't) over-dosing the stubble left over after the harvesting during Ernting, of their crop fields (barley, wheat, rye, oats etc) with sewage, slurry. If a sewage farm is overfilled with sewage, there may be a financial inducement (back-hander) offered to farmers to take more than the legally allowed amount. The sewage is used as a fertilizer to help crops to grow. Going over the allowed levels can be poisonous to us humans. Sewage contains heavy metals like Lead, Zinc, Cadmium and 6? others (I'll have to check my old paperwork for the others). These heavy metals are to be found (hopefully in allowed low levels) in bread, cereals, pies, biscuits, buns, cakes etc. The spraying of sewage onto the fields happens from late October to the first weeks of November, when it goes dark early. Germany also makes bricks from treated excess sewage. Britain , yeh, what does Britain do with its excess sewage? Do you enjoy eating fish? lol.

 

During the above action(s) we were clad in combat gear, balaclavas, and were equipped with field glasses and torches. Two lads even had walkie-talkies lol. We jotted down all comings and goings, plus reg numbers of tractors and trailers.

 

We also pestered owners of hairdressing salons as regards to their disposal of empty aerosol canisters. We were big on environmental issues.

 

For in depth info on sewage. . google. . Sewage on fields. A very interesting read.

 

 

 

(b) A Jusos comrade and I used to infiltrate meetings of the CDU (Con-servatives), and also FDP (Liberals), twice monthly in towns and villages within a radius of 10 to 15 kilometres around Hannover. We weren't encouraged, nor discouraged by the mother party, we just did it mainly to prove we could do it. The info gleaned from the meetings was passed on by me to the main office of our party in the Odeon Strasse, in Hannover (I worked just around the corner). We wanted to know which themes (topics) those two parties were discussing. I thought up the infiltration scam and my comrade avidly went along with it. We even got on many occasions free food and drink at those meetings, and in the pub afterwards from our unsuspecting political opponents. We weren't allowed to speak at the meetings, we were 'guests' (non-members) afterall lol.

 

The scam was quite simple really, but we needed to have discipline (we had it) for it to work, plenty of bottle (we had it), no slips of the tongue, and certainly no smirking or giggling. We did this for 4-5 years then packed up, because we were running out of towns and villages to 'invade' lol. I might explain on another day how we managed to infiltrate the meetings, otherwise this short post will turn into a long one lol. Just to say, the infiltrating can easily be done anywhere, including Sheffield.

 

Some of my SPD friends in Lehrte, (including Gerd Schroeder, who at the time was establishing for himself a good career in politics) have since climbed the ladder in the SPD, but sadly, a good few have 'handed in their spoon'. . have died. A german expression.

 

All the above may seem far-fetched, but it all really happened. I have a boatload of anecdotes about my time in the SPD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I haven't, as yet, detected an umlaut button on this, my new second-hand laptop, Darra. This means me writing Hoever like that. Hoever is a small place about 3 kilometres south-west of Lehrte. Hoever is within the constituency of neighbouring Sehnde, although Hoever is nearer to Lehrte than Sehnde is. They are all under the umbrella of Hannover Land.

 

When we (missus and me) drove to work in Hannover early each week-day morning, we'd see Hoever down the hill as we turned off onto the main road that ran down to Hannover. The roofs (rooves)of the houses in Hoever were always white, like a winterscape on an Xmas greetings card, unless it was raining. The reason for this is because Hoever had (has) a cement factory (works). I guess they opened the chimney filters under the cloak of darkness (night-time), Dirty sods!

 

I'm interested to know if your grandpa also lived, as well as taught in Hoever. Also, which route did you take from Sheffield to Lehrte/Hoever for your summer holidays? Are you dual-nationality? I'm a nosey sod. . . like a policewoman indeed lol.

 

 

Anyweigh Darra, I can imagine you had good fun as a child, holidaying and adventuring for six weeks in the area, because the whole area was (is) called Grossen Freien (Big Free), because it is well away (at one time) from general transit routes-road and rail, although it is very close to the Mittelland Kanal.

 

There was also the possibility of you going on a 15-20 minute train ride (if you were based in Hoever, you'd travel from Ahlten (Lehrte 4) railway station) to Hannover to visit the zoo, and also to look around the shops. It will have made a pleasant change from spending most of the year in dark, dank and dirty Darnall, and in Pistmoor, where you later lived.

 

 

3. Thank-you for saying you look forward to my posts. It won't affect your statutory rights. I look forward to my posts too. . . even I don't know where they are going to lead to when I'm typing the first line lol.

 

All the above is correct at the time of going to press. Cheers Darra.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello, Bayern Blade,

 

1. 1986ish. I hadn't been in the original Be bop for a cuppla months or so (because I wasn't interested in the bands playing during that time), when I read in the Schaedelspalter magazine, that the Be bop was to cloise down. I was somewhat upset about it cloising, because the Be bop was a great venue for music, and for birds. The Be bop was in a nice spot, up the hill towards the stars.

 

It was pleasing though, to find out another venue had been found for a 'new' Be bop. The new Be bop was to be down the 'mountain' in Hildesheim City. The first gig I saw at the new Be bop was, Volker Kriegel (a brilliant German jazz guitarist). I also saw Toto Blanke (another German guitarist) at the new Be bop. I also was at a Toto Blanke gig in Hannover in the early 90s, at Jazz Club am Lindener Berg. I sold CDs for him that evening, and this got me free entry for the show. Both these guitarists are now deead.

 

I wasn't overly impressed with the'new'Be bop, and I noticed the drink prices had risen. The place just didn't have the atmosphere of the original Be bop. I prefer my venues to look a little bit loppy (but not as much as the Yorkshiremans Rock Bar, in Sheffield). I feel it adds to the atmosphere. There seemed to be plenty of undesirables coming into the place too, people who didn't seem to be interested in music, but boozin' then later causing trouble.

 

Suppin' til 5 in the morning suited me (if I wanted to), but after closing time it was certainly loud, and at times, unruly outside, causing people living in the neighbourhood to constantly phone the Feds. Although I continued going to occasional gigs, I spent more of my time in Hannover instead. I had a great time going to gigs in Hannover and in Hildesheim.

 

 

 

2. Regards my list of gigs in the original Be bop, I made some errors. The Stanley Clarke/Allan Holdsworth (Bradford's finest), and the Philip Catherine gigs, I saw in the new Be bop. The Giant Sand and Peter Hammill gigs were at Vier Linden, I think. I've seen so many gigs in Germoney I tend to get confused where some of them took place. I always found it relatively cheap to go to live music except when it was Genesis, Roxy Music, BJH, Yes, Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath and other big names etc.

 

 

3. Dominic May.

 

I think you May be referring to a lad 10 or more years younger than myself. He'd have been 15-16 at the time I first saw him(and he me).

I recall Dominic as a glass collector, weaving his way through the crowds at the original Be bop. He had quite a few mates of his own age group in the Be bop. Being youngsters, they all seemed to have the habit of attention seeking. Because they always seemed to be in the Be bop, they most likely thought they owned the place. These fidgety lads were into rock music, then they seemed to change overnight into being Punkers. . . trend followers (I once read a review in a German newspaper, that likened Punk music to speeded-up oompah oompah music) lol. Dominic and his disciples also thought they were the greatest graffiti (sp) artists the world had ever seen with their inane scrawling on the inner and outer walls of the Be bop. I'm surprised Doddy (one of the 3 owners) had so much patience with them. It always seemed to me that German grown-ups have more patience with 'unruly' youngsters than their British counterparts.

I don't recall seeing Dominic in the 'new' Be bop, MAYbe a lapse in my so called long memory. I do remember though, that Dominic had an elder brother called Tom.

 

Perhaps I'm being a little harsh on Dominic and his pals, they certainly didn't have a monopoly on outlandish behaviour. I've been a reight bengel during my teenagehood too. I've seen the Dominic and Co types at other venues in Germany. One was the Jolly Joker, in Braunschweig, where I lived for a spell afore my Lehrte days. I lived in north Braunschweig (Brunswick), in Bienrode. I worked in south Braunschweig, in Mascherode, as a landscape developer.

 

Ive also seen young 'uns with 'nowhere to go' in Bad Zwischenahn, at Long John Disko too. That was a good time too, drinking Charlys. . a tumbler glass with a very generous splash of Brandy (none of this tight-fisted optic measures stuff, like in Britain), topped up with Coca cola, whilst 'boppin' to Genesis playing Follow me, follow you. I was working on a plantation for a company called Bruns, in Bad Zwischenahn. This was a couple of stops before my Braunschweig daze when I worked for Haltern & Kauffman (Vorsfelde).

 

4. Just to mention that I liked how Doddy put plenty of Hildesheim bands on at both Be bops. It gave the young musicians the experience of playing in front of largish audiences. It was also a sort of 'rehearsal session' for the youngsters too.

 

 

Ende.

[darra]

My Uncle lived on Fichtes Strasse He would be well into his 80's now. He once one the champion beer drinker of Germany. The competition was in a bar that sold be from pretty much very corner of the world. He had to blind taste them and say what they were and where from he also played Kegel for Germany. My opa was indeed the headmaster of the Schule in Hover and we stayed in the house opposite the school. We used to get the boat train from Sheffield (Midland) in the early days to Harwich then the overnight ferry to the Hoek van Holland then on to Hannover. Lot different in the early days. get off the train then hand the tickets to a bloke sat in what was basically a garden shed then on to the customs. Cars in those days were loaded on to the boats by crane, great to watch as a young kid.

[Bayern Blade]

Dominic is still around but I don't see him much, I went out with his sister Claire about 15 years ago. He has two brothers, Martin who lives here and yes Thomas who moved to Berlin years ago. There hasn't been a decent gig at the Vier Linden for years, years ago I saw the Stranglers there and Cockney rebel. I remember seeing the Stranglers at the Jolly joker. Dominic is a year or two younger than me, about 54 I think. I don't know Doddy but he is still around and has the occasional Be bop revival night at the Vier Linden. The new Be bop is now a fitness studio I think.

[floydandjoni]

Does anyone know how to contact Ken who was the DJ in the Wapentake, I need to see if he can do a birthday next March.

I used to collect the glasses in the Wapentake at weekends in the early 80s.

Thanks if you can help

[melthebell]

5 minutes ago, floydandjoni said:

Does anyone know how to contact Ken who was the DJ in the Wapentake, I need to see if he can do a birthday next March.

I used to collect the glasses in the Wapentake at weekends in the early 80s.

Thanks if you can help

sure i remember a Floyd from the wap.....i had a green mohican (later in green dreads) hung around with the thrashers round the table football, or in the booths with the likes of soldier and chris long.

[stonecircle]

12 hours ago, floydandjoni said:

Does anyone know how to contact Ken who was the DJ in the Wapentake, I need to see if he can do a birthday next March.

I used to collect the glasses in the Wapentake at weekends in the early 80s.

Thanks if you can help

He is a good friend of DJ Lez who you will probably find DJ'ing in the Yorkshireman, you could leave a message with him. 

[Maggie Hague]

Hi. For some reason I googled Stuart Beresford   from way back.. Anyone remember Steve and Maggie Hague? The Buccaneer and the Raven were our main haunts.