rubydazzler Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 So, now that misunderstanding's been cleared up can you tell me how you think our society panders to, and bends over backwards for, those people who are involved in honour killings? Or do you not think we do? When did I say this anyway? I just said I found it hard to believe you didn't understand the meaning of common sayings. But as I can't type for laffing at my mistake, I thought you'd turned into a shark for a moment there, but only a basking one in the end So whilst I gather myself and stop giggling, you could attempt to answer my points ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomdido Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Religion has been used as a tool to control women for centuries. Christianity may be a bit more enlightend these days but it is still sexist and homophobic. I can't accept any culture that has different rules for men and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdyamos Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 This is a good article, and has lots of honest meat on the bone regarding cultural attitudes and the truth about the pressures embedded widely within certain cultures, even if they seem quite moderate to an outsider. It features a couple called Jack and Zena, whose story I read a decade ago. The book came out when Diana died so was never really noticed to the degree that it should have been. A decade on, my heart sinks that people are still in denial about what Jack and Zena know to be culturally true. A Romeo and Juliet for our times, they have been in hiding for 13 years and are still in danger from the underground network who would be happy to carry out Zena's father's death sentence, because their law-according-to-God is more important than the law of the land. What was most shocking about their story was the fact that they could only find safety in the 'whitest' towns in England, because the word on the ummah grapevine was so powerful that people across the country might 'recognise' them and act out the father's wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Read about Jack and Zena on a couple of previous occasions, thanks for the article Purdy. Just shows what lengths some people have to go to just to remain alive. I was saddened to read the murder case, a young woman killed is always horrific, but when its planned and carried out by her family - its beneath contempt. But lets be clear, it didn't happen because they were Muslims, it happened because they were people who applied their own backward view of their religion. Male dominance may have been the culture where their families originally came from, but when people choose to live in the UK and other similar societies, they need to accept that forced marriages, honour killings and general subjugation of women isn't the way of life there. If they can't live within those rules, then perhaps they have chosen the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CockneyMafia Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Having lived in predominantly Muslim neighbourhoods in Sheffield, and worked in areas with a large amounts of Muslim customers, I will sod 'theory' and the "oh, but it's only a minority" rhetoric and call it how I see it. In my humble opinion, women are second class, downtrodden servants to men in these societies. End of. NOTHING will change my mind on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex3659 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 can anybody tell me why they feel they need to murder there children just because they are going out with somebody they do not approve of http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6743357.stm when in rome do as the romans do,when in england do as the english do .there is no such thing as honour killing ,just plain murder by people who want to live in the dark ages in a twentieth century country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr contrite Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 "The essence of marriage is slavery. After marriage the wife enters slavery of the husband". - Imam Gazzali - Ehya Ulum Al Deen Vol 2. One of many examples of how they treat women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.B.Yaffle Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I believe we will get more "honour" murders in the UK if we don't do something to discourage people from following the beliefs of fundamentalist Muslims. I think Tony Blair may have made a mistake though in promising more funding for the study of "peaceful" Islam. It might lead more UK Muslims to believe that they are following a watered-down version of their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bago Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't agree that the Macpherson report does anything to stop police doing their work . If police can't sort out the priorities between "political correctness" and preventing a murder then god help us all. If that is the case, blame the police, not Macpherson. It's like admitting that because they just don't know how to deal fairly with BME communites, doing nothing becomes an option in cases like this. I assume and still believe that that the police are there to protect and serve the whole community, not just the ones they are comfortable dealing with. Very very well said. Maybe this is the precise reason why the police force was labelled as "institutionally racist". Not because their intention was not to help, but they are not informed and knowledge of such potential issues. So they are just like ostrich with head in the sands. Again, it didn't take long for this kind of issue to be linked with Islam, or muslims. I am sick and tired of this kind of serial linking and perpetuation of Islamaphobia. If this country is based on communities, then everybody should look at this kind of issue as a social issue. It affects you, it affects me. I do feel bad when I read that the girl had contacted the police 3 to 4 times (?) and the comment from the police was that it was "attention seeking". This was on the news as well. Don't the police have a check box and tick list of what potential problems may be for citizens? Whether it is domestic violence, related to drinking and footballs, or related to honor killings... I just cannot believe that the police would overlook at such issues. There are already charities set up to highlight issues of arranged marriages to honor killings. Maybe the police should work with such charities to identify and understand the reasons behind such acts. At least they can approach the families in a more respected way and deter them from going to such extreme ways, and with them ended up in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6906735.stm Do you have a comment to make to this already much debated subject? Or are you hoping the debate just starts up again. OK - its wrong, its criminal and I'm glad the British courts see it as such. I just hope the sentencing reflects the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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