TeaFan Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 But is the British murderer protected by his peers? Is he assisted in his killing by friends and family? Can he claim that its a religious right? Can he say that its in his blood because his father and grandfather and ancestors made a habit of it? No, and clearly all of that justification is bullsh*t. Please understand, I'm not in the least bit saying it's ok - obviously. What I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to take what a small number of people do and then generalise that to anyone who happens to share the same nationality/religion, etc. That is unreasonable, isn't it? Plus, he can claim whatever he wants, but thankfully that doesn't make a jot of difference in British law, and I can't see any evidence that that is going to change. Thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 No, and clearly all of that justification is bullsh*t. Please understand, I'm not in the least bit saying it's ok - obviously. What I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to take what a small number of people do and then generalise that to anyone who happens to share the same nationality/religion, etc. That is unreasonable, isn't it? Oh I know you arent trying to justify it or say its ok. But thats what these murderers try to get themselves out of it when they get arrested. IF they get arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Imported brutal murderers....oh and its people like you doing the bending. You're not making yourself clear - how are 'people like me' doing the bending. In what way are you suggesting that I have any personal responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey10 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 No, and clearly all of that justification is bullsh*t. Please understand, I'm not in the least bit saying it's ok - obviously. What I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to take what a small number of people do and then generalise that to anyone who happens to share the same nationality/religion, etc. That is unreasonable, isn't it? it happens to thousands of women a year. killed in the name of honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdyamos Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 But that doesn't make it any more acceptable, does it? When an Englishman kills his wife and kids, you don't get people lining up to ask what's wrong with English people. These "honour" killings are shocking but rare - they don't necessarily say anything about other people of the same culture, in the same way that an Englishman killing his wife and kids says anything about me or you. Sorry, but can I just repeat myself? All cultures' attitudes to women, families, killing, sex, marriage etc are not the same: Originally Posted by purdyamos Actual killers may be, but the cultural code that females must carry the burden of honour of the entire family is fairly widespread. It's true that plenty of other people are murdered by members of their own family, but in most cases there is not tacet support for the murderers' motivation. In one of the recent previous convictions for an honour killing, the judge spoke out sharply at the wider community's collusion in protecting the murdering family. This sort of misogynistic underpinning, be it Koranic or otherwise, must be faced head on, not minimised and swamped in relativism. When an Englishman kills his wife, he is pretty much condemned as a monster. If a devout muslim kills his wife, the cultural bias is very much in sympathy with the man. Even when females are not killed for having a mind of their own or falling in love with a *kaffir* the wider pressure from immediate, extended family, the community to conform and silently obey can be immense. We have to stop pretending otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooksy Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Personally this thread is going the same way as all these threads do.Surley all we need to say is that this whole thing is a disgrace and we dont want it in the uk.Is that unreasonable people or will be seeing public stoanings soon with michael paling selling bags of gravel.If its wrong its wrong whether its muslims or martians and if they want to practice these things then let em **** else where to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaFan Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Sorry, but can I just repeat myself? All cultures' attitudes to women, families, killing, sex, marriage etc are not the same: When an Englishman kills his wife, he is pretty much condemned as a monster. If a devout muslim kills his wife, the cultural bias is very much in sympathy with the man. Even when females are not killed for having a mind of their own or falling in love with a *kaffir* the wider pressure from immediate, extended family, the community to conform and silently obey can be immense. We have to stop pretending otherwise. Yeah, I'd agree with that pretty much. Middle Eastern and Asian cultures, along with some other cultures in the world (e.g. South American) are much more patriarchal and macho, and that definitely is a problem, for the women at least. That doesn't however translate into "all muslims are wife-killers and have to be deported" (although I know that's not what you're saying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Personally this thread is going the same way as all these threads do.Surley all we need to say is that this whole thing is a disgrace and we dont want it in the uk.Is that unreasonable people or will be seeing public stoanings soon with michael paling selling bags of gravel.If its wrong its wrong whether its muslims or martians and if they want to practice these things then let em **** else where to do it. Of course we don't want killings of any sort in the UK brooksy, but some people (see upholder's post) are stupid enough to think you could change it by banning a religion and closing places of worship. Which is clearly pants. It remains illegal here and always will be. The attitudes that underly such killings need to be challenged and changed, but you can't demonise a wholl community for the acts of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaFan Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Personally this thread is going the same way as all these threads do.Surley all we need to say is that this whole thing is a disgrace and we dont want it in the uk. Quite. And can the police please do a better job of protecting women. Do you remember the case a while ago of the woman who was being stalked by her ex? She went to the police lots of times and they just ignored her. Then her ex killed her. It's p*ss poor. And I heard something on the radio the other day about the police cautioning people for rape. For frig's sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Personally this thread is going the same way as all these threads do.Surley all we need to say is that this whole thing is a disgrace and we dont want it in the uk.Is that unreasonable people or will be seeing public stoanings soon with michael paling selling bags of gravel.If its wrong its wrong whether its muslims or martians and if they want to practice these things then let em **** else where to do it. Trouble is, youre a racist if you say that. It doesnt matter if youre right, you will be called a racist and it sticks. Im not a racist, but the way things are going... its only a matter of time, and it it can turn ME into one, then it can turn anyone into one. I seriously see a vicious backlash to the way the governments are behavnig towards immigration, and it wont be in 50 years too. Itll be far sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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