Is reasonable force reasonable?

[Dark Moomin]

dark moomin i know where your coming from but the burgular that is now doin the rounds are mostly smack heads feeding an habit & they will resort to owt, oaps are getting mugged for a few quid beat up killed tortured wedding rings tore of fingers, house,s ransacked

 

I appreciate that there are crimes, often committed by drug addicts, where disproportionate force is used to commission and offence for very little gain. However I still feel this is in the minority. Rates of car crime show that it is very easy to make money from very low risk crime to feed a habit, rates of robbery are actually pretty low, especially compared to car crime.

 

I don't recall hearing/reading about numerous violent burgalries around sheffield and I am sure that such a pattern would soon find itself plastered across the Star.

[Grahame]

Crown Prosecution Service Guidance:

 

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of:

• self-defence; or
  
• defence of another; or
  
• defence of property; or
  
• prevention of crime; or
  
• lawful arrest.
  

 

http://cps.gov.uk

 

I have pasted the page for information so that people can comment. Thank you for the link cgksheff.

 

Householders and the use of force against intruders. Joint Public Statement from the Crown Prosecution Service and the Association of Chief Police Officers.

 

What is the purpose of this statement?

It is a rare and frightening prospect to be confronted by an intruder in your own home. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and Chief Constables are responding to public concern over the support offered by the law and confusion about householders defending themselves. We want a criminal justice system that reaches fair decisions, has the confidence of law-abiding citizens and encourages them actively to support the police and prosecutors in the fight against crime.

 

Wherever possible you should call the police.

The following summarises the position when you are faced with an intruder in your home, and provides a brief overview of how the police and CPS will deal with any such events.

Does the law protect me?

 

What is 'reasonable force'?

Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

 

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.

 

Do I have to wait to be attacked?

No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others. In those circumstances the law does not require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force yourself.

 

What if the intruder dies?

If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully. Indeed, there are several such cases where the householder has not been prosecuted.

However, if, for example:

• having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them; or

• you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police,

you would be acting with very excessive and gratuitous force and could be prosecuted.

 

What if I chase them as they run off?

This situation is different as you are no longer acting in self-defence and so the same degree of force may not be reasonable. However, you are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen's arrest. You should consider your own safety and, for example, whether the police have been called. A rugby tackle or a single blow would probably be reasonable. Acting out of malice and revenge with the intent of inflicting punishment through injury or death would not.

 

Will you believe the intruder rather than me?

The police weigh all the facts when investigating an incident. This includes the fact that the intruder caused the situation to arise in the first place. We hope that everyone understands that the police have a duty to investigate incidents involving a death or injury. Things are not always as they seem. On occasions people pretend a burglary has taken place to cover up other crimes such as a fight between drug dealers.

 

How would the police and CPS handle the investigation and treat me?

In considering these cases Chief Constables and the Director of Public Prosecutions (Head of the CPS) are determined that they must be investigated and reviewed as swiftly and as sympathetically as possible. In some cases, for instance where the facts are very clear, or where less serious injuries are involved, the investigation will be concluded very quickly, without any need for arrest. In more complicated cases, such as where a death or serious injury occurs, more detailed enquiries will be necessary. The police may need to conduct a forensic examination and/or obtain your account of events.

 

To ensure such cases are dealt with as swiftly and sympathetically as possible, the police and CPS will take special measures namely:

• An experienced investigator will oversee the case; and

• If it goes as far as CPS considering the evidence, the case will be prioritised to ensure a senior lawyer makes a quick decision.

It is a fact that very few householders have ever been prosecuted for actions resulting from the use of force against intruders.

http://cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

[cressida]

you certainly do your homework Grahame, full marks as usual, xxx

[Grahame]

you certainly do your homework Grahame, full marks as usual, xxx

 

Thank you cressida.

 

I have highlighted the areas I feel are important?

[The Monz]

I was the victim of an attempted mugging a year ago and managed to keep hold of my handbag. What surprised me was how strong I was when the instinct to protect myself took over. The man never hit me, just ran off when I struggled with him and wouldn't let go, but I think I could have hurt him if he hadn't and at that precise moment in time I had very little control over my actions. I am not condoning violence in any way, but this is the only time I have ever had to protect myself and I was shocked at how I reacted.

[sccsux]

they can't hurt you from the floor.

 

They could bite bite yer legs off (ala Monty Python)

 

I would simply take hold of his wrist with both hands

 

and would then get swiftly kicked in the nuts.

[Grahame]

and would then get swiftly kicked in the nuts.

 

If I took hold of his wrist and turned my back on him, he would have a job to kick me in the nuts.

 

Besides which it would depend who was the quickest.

 

And if he had his hand in the air and one leg raised, first he would look a right pillock, he would be off balance, and all I would have to to is take hold of his foot and twist him to the ground, or throw him on his back.

[sccsux]

If I took hold of his wrist and turned my back on him, he would have a job to kick me in the nuts.

 

You'd be facing him/her first. You go to grab the arm, knee comes up:thumbsup:

[Cyclone]

If I took hold of his wrist and turned my back on him, he would have a job to kick me in the nuts.

 

Besides which it would depend who was the quickest.

 

And if he had his hand in the air and one leg raised, first he would look a right pillock, he would be off balance, and all I would have to to is take hold of his foot and twist him to the ground, or throw him on his back.

 

If you try to take hold of someones arm as it swings towards you with a hammer in it then you are going to die. So get the idea out of your head now.

[Cyclone]

It wouldn't be murder though if it were legal to shoot burglars would it?

 

The idea is stupid beyond belief.

Burglars are already prepared to break the law, so if they law were changed as you suggest all you'd find was a massive increase in the number of home owners killed before or during having their houses burgled.