Magilla Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Indeed, and Tony Martin was jailed for shooting a burglar in the back as he tried to climb out of a window to escape... On another thread saxon has said that if you chase a thief you should be allowed to administer a bit of a beating as punishment. And that most people think this way, so I thought I'd see what everyone else thought. I've always wondered... if you beat someone up who's burgled your house... how do they report it to the police? "Oh I was robbing someone's house and they assaulted me".. isn't that a spectacular own goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbyBrown Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I have pasted the page for information so that people can comment. Thank you for the link cgksheff. Householders and the use of force against intruders. Joint Public Statement from the Crown Prosecution Service and the Association of Chief Police Officers. What is the purpose of this statement? It is a rare and frightening prospect to be confronted by an intruder in your own home. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and Chief Constables are responding to public concern over the support offered by the law and confusion about householders defending themselves. We want a criminal justice system that reaches fair decisions, has the confidence of law-abiding citizens and encourages them actively to support the police and prosecutors in the fight against crime. Wherever possible you should call the police. The following summarises the position when you are faced with an intruder in your home, and provides a brief overview of how the police and CPS will deal with any such events. Does the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'? Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon. As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. Do I have to wait to be attacked? No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others. In those circumstances the law does not require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force yourself. What if the intruder dies? If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully. Indeed, there are several such cases where the householder has not been prosecuted. However, if, for example: • having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them; or • you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police, you would be acting with very excessive and gratuitous force and could be prosecuted. What if I chase them as they run off? This situation is different as you are no longer acting in self-defence and so the same degree of force may not be reasonable. However, you are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen's arrest. You should consider your own safety and, for example, whether the police have been called. A rugby tackle or a single blow would probably be reasonable. Acting out of malice and revenge with the intent of inflicting punishment through injury or death would not. Will you believe the intruder rather than me? The police weigh all the facts when investigating an incident. This includes the fact that the intruder caused the situation to arise in the first place. We hope that everyone understands that the police have a duty to investigate incidents involving a death or injury. Things are not always as they seem. On occasions people pretend a burglary has taken place to cover up other crimes such as a fight between drug dealers. How would the police and CPS handle the investigation and treat me? In considering these cases Chief Constables and the Director of Public Prosecutions (Head of the CPS) are determined that they must be investigated and reviewed as swiftly and as sympathetically as possible. In some cases, for instance where the facts are very clear, or where less serious injuries are involved, the investigation will be concluded very quickly, without any need for arrest. In more complicated cases, such as where a death or serious injury occurs, more detailed enquiries will be necessary. The police may need to conduct a forensic examination and/or obtain your account of events. To ensure such cases are dealt with as swiftly and sympathetically as possible, the police and CPS will take special measures namely: • An experienced investigator will oversee the case; and • If it goes as far as CPS considering the evidence, the case will be prioritised to ensure a senior lawyer makes a quick decision. It is a fact that very few householders have ever been prosecuted for actions resulting from the use of force against intruders. http://cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html Can't we just simply shoot theves who break into our homes? after all they are simply vermin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've always wondered... if you beat someone up who's burgled your house... how do they report it to the police? "Oh I was robbing someone's house and they assaulted me".. isn't that a spectacular own goal? Certainly would be I suspect, but if the home owner actually detains them then they may as well make the complaint since they've been caught anyway. Trick is to leave no marks. no marks, no evidence, no prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 Can't we just simply shoot theves who break into our homes? after all they are simply vermin Award for excessively large quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Can't we just simply shoot theves who break into our homes? after all they are simply vermin See previous responses to this question. It's a complete no-brainer (as our American cousins would say). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fareast Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Someone earlier pointed out that the number of violent housebreakers is a very small percentage of the whole. However, if you're awoken at 3 a.m., by noises downstairs, with your children asleep in the next bedroom, you're not going to sit there working out statistics on a calculator. There is certainly enough violence of all types in society these days to make anyone a bit wary ! Also, it was pointed out that due to a lot of guns being in the possession of Americans, a lot of American children had been accidently [ or through negligence ] killed at home by guns. I think that says more about the stupidity of certain American gun-owners and their children than about the principle of gun ownership. What about Switzerland for example, where just as high a percentage of people own guns as in America ? Anyway, it's fairly re-assuring to see in the legal guidelines quoted above that the law does seem to allow for the [ mistaken ] over-use of violence of a householder, used in the heat of the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbyBrown Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Award for excessively large quote. I'm sorry, but these people are vermin. They show no consideration to their victims. Full marks to Tony Martin for getting rid of one. 0 out of 10 for not doing a proper job on the other one.... but nearly, better luck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 What about Switzerland for example, where just as high a percentage of people own guns as in America ? Anyway, it's fairly re-assuring to see in the legal guidelines quoted above that the law does seem to allow for the [ mistaken ] over-use of violence of a householder, used in the heat of the moment. Swiss owned guns would of course be of little use in deterring an intruder, what with them being locked away, separately to the ammunition and neither of these things being to hand when you hear a suspicious noise downstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 I'm sorry, but these people are vermin. They show no consideration to their victims. Full marks to Tony Martin for getting rid of one. 0 out of 10 for not doing a proper job on the other one.... but nearly, better luck next time. You fail to see the bigger picture. Maybe someone mistakenly decides that you need a citizens arrest performing, or they think for some reason that you're about to assault them. At the moment, they punch you, in your world they shoot you. Since it's all a mistake at the moment you get a saw head and it's all okay, in your world you die and they apologise afterwards to your family. I know which world I'd rather be in, because mistakes do happen, and I don't want to be someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbyBrown Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 You fail to see the bigger picture. Maybe someone mistakenly decides that you need a citizens arrest performing, or they think for some reason that you're about to assault them. At the moment, they punch you, in your world they shoot you. Since it's all a mistake at the moment you get a saw head and it's all okay, in your world you die and they apologise afterwards to your family. I know which world I'd rather be in, because mistakes do happen, and I don't want to be someone else's. Could be an area we both disagree on, to me, these people are vermin that have no rights. Anyway. Mate, I'm supposed to be putting on silly posts to wind people up, this thread has made me go all serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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