The benefits class

[cityman]

Bottom line is this country has made people rely too much on the benefits culture,it has to change otherwise the taxpayers are going to become ever more resentful of those who are too lazy to fend for themselves.

I reckon you ought to do as they do in the US and put a time limit on benefits,that way all the free loaders and lets be honest their are MILLLIONS of them here will either get off their arse and work or starve,their choice.

I for one am sick and tired of paying for the feckless and work shy,its got to stop and I will vote for ANY party that promises to do something to change it.

[Bago]

Actually, many people strive to be responsible parents and deny themselves that 'human right' to have children because they cannot afford to care for them adequately. It's a shame - because they're probably the folks who'd make excellent parents with such a responsible attitude.

 

I've been self-employed for the vast majority of my working life. That means that if I can't find work, I can't claim that I'm unemployed, so can't claim much in terms of benefits. That's cool - I chose my lifestyle. the last time I claimed benefit was 25+ years ago, and that was to pay my mum rent between University and 'real life'.

 

However, when I am between gigs I go down on to subsistence level living - belts get pulled in and I cut my cloth to suit my circumstances. I'm not asking more of anyone else than I ask of myself. If you're out of work, and on benefits or relying on the state, YOUR part of the deal is to do what you can to help yourself out. That means, unfortunately, that if you're not expecting a child you may want to consider how you're going to afford it.

 

It's self discipline, rather than fascism.

 

Many people do self-regulate these things - they're responsible members of society, the offspring of whom we could do with. Some of those who DON'T self-regulate are basically just adding more of their own selfish progeny to the community.

I'm surprised at your views JoeP. After all that has been said about Human Rights.

 

Yes, what you said is a decision which you make for yourself, and I think I make the same right for myself too. Yet, should I make or enforce that right on somebody else by way of my vote? To allow the state to control birth rate by making it a crime to have kids when you are on benefit, is indeed fascist.

 

I have never ever heard that having kids is a socially acceptable responsible thing to do. (Should I care and let others dictate my life?) I have always naively thought that people have kids cos they want them, or if it happened. A lot of babies are born from mistakes, but when that time comes, most people are driven to make the best for their child under any circumstances. I was one of these child as well, I wasn't planned. If milk money wasn't available for children, I don't think my family could survive either at that time.

[SUPERTYKE]

 

........ many of the ills of our current society stem directly from the other end of the political spectrum. The luvvie/bien pensant Guardianistas have moulded the way we are today and continue to do so.

 

Yeah but it's easier to blame the unemployed for the ills of the country graficus.

Threads like these, while sickening to the soul, can be cheering; - for all of the mean spirited bigots, there are enough fair minded and humane people to post reasoned lucid and RATIONAL arguments like these.

 

Life has a remarkable way of dealing with those who judge so unfairly.

Around the corner - your unknowable fate awaits..

[Rich]

Yeah but it's easier to blame the unemployed for the ills of the country graficus.

Threads like these, while sickening to the soul, can be cheering; - for all of the mean spirited bigots, there are enough fair minded and humane people to post reasoned lucid and RATIONAL arguments like these.

 

Life has a remarkable way of dealing with those who judge so unfairly.

Around the corner - your unknowable fate awaits..

 

Indeed, all you Daily Mail and Guardian readers slag me and other benefit claimants off till the cows come home, but how would YOU cope if you were unable to work and had to claim benefits as your only way of getting some kind of income?

[johnbradley]

Lots of people are incapacitated, and cannot work. That is true. But as far as i can tell, if you are of sound mind and can sit at a pc and type away at a forum all day, you can work.

 

Ive been unemployed, ive been stupidly skint, eating beans and living in a grotty, damp ********. Im never going back to that.

 

But i'm still skint half the time, and those people i know who are in the pub every night, but are claiming incapacity, really wind me up.

 

There definately should be harsher laws. No breeding on benefits for a kick off.

 

and i agree with a prev poster, mightve been joe...the system is there to help...but the help needs to be met with a desire to contribute, in the same way as us people who work contribute.

[The Monz]

I have felt a growing unease over the last 30 odd years about the benefits system. It does appear to favour long term claimants. People trying to get back to work can be penalised via various benefit rules which makes it hard to take temporary work - often the only way back to employment. There is some truth about people's attitudes changing, it used to be shameful to be on benefits, I'd hate to see that kind of attitude returning. However, there are many more people nowadays who do seem to think that claiming benefits for ever is their right - without any responsibility for putting anything back (not necessarily money) into society.

 

However, I would like to see some sort of welfare to work regime, with lifetime limited benefits (where there are no health, disability or caring responsibilities). Proper training for people in practical skills with jobs at the end of them? Then benefits removed if people still choose not to work. Purdey's suggestion about compulsory contraception is an interesting one - I just hope it would apply to males as well as females?

 

Well said. I have recently started work again after being unemployed for a few months. Mr Monz works full time but on a low income, minimum wage - tax and NI = net pay of £165. He has been working for 31 years since leaving school and has never been unemplyed. I have worked for 29 years since leaving school and have never been unemployed before.

 

I was entitled to £57 per week. We were unable to claim working tax credit as it is assessed on last years earnings and last year I earned about £40k, so were unable to get any help with council tax either. During this period of unemployment we have spent every penny of our savings just on keeping our household ticking over but have bits and pieces of arrears that we have to catch up, so it is going to take us a few months to get these sorted out and will probably take us a couple of years to accrue some more rainy day money. A holiday is a dream at the moment unless we have a windfall.

 

When I started my new job I had missed the payroll deadline for July so I will not get paid until the 31 August. I asked when I signed off with DWP (oh, what a happy day that was) if I could have any help with my tram pass for work until I got paid and I was told that no help is available as I was not out of work long enough. So the next month is going to be really tough for us. I think I am going to have to phone my brother to ask him if I can borrow some money just to get me to work and back, and I had been using my benefit to pay the council tax which obviously I no longer get. We cannot pay this so I know that when I do get paid I will have to pay the full balance for the year (£700) or go to court so that will be a big % of my salary gone straight away. I have explained the circumstances with them and tried to negotiate, asked them if I could pay half in July and catch up in August but they have said no.

 

However my neighbours (who are lovely people, this is not a gripe at them, just an observation) have not worked for at least the 7 years I have lived here, have two cars, go out about 4 nights a week and have just been to ask me to look after their cat as they are going to Spain for 2 weeks.

 

If benefits were meant to be a safety net for working people the net must have big holes because I have fell right through it.

[medusa]

Lots of people are incapacitated, and cannot work. That is true. But as far as i can tell, if you are of sound mind and can sit at a pc and type away at a forum all day, you can work.

 

Ive been unemployed, ive been stupidly skint, eating beans and living in a grotty, damp ********. Im never going back to that.

 

But i'm still skint half the time, and those people i know who are in the pub every night, but are claiming incapacity, really wind me up.

 

There definately should be harsher laws. No breeding on benefits for a kick off.

 

and i agree with a prev poster, mightve been joe...the system is there to help...but the help needs to be met with a desire to contribute, in the same way as us people who work contribute.

 

There is an enormous difference between could work and could get employment. I'm sure I could work, but I have yet to find an employer who could cope with me lying in a recliner at my PC (that's the only comfortable position), taking 2 or 3 naps during my working day (at unplanned intervals) and arriving late at least a couple of times a week when I've slept through the alarm.

 

In fact, I've completely retrained to help me find a job since being ill. I'm now a fully qualified FE teacher (qualified to teach basic skills, EFL and basic computer skills) but since I can't predictably be awake, alert and out of pain at the times of classes, would you employ me to teach at your (hypothetical) FE college?

 

I'm not isolated here- the unemployment rate amongst adults with disabilities who are actively seeking work is shocking.

 

Blame for this cannot be placed just at the feet of the people with disabilities, some of whom are equally well-qualified as the other applicants for jobs. As it is, I'm not currently seeking work because I know that I'm not well enough to actually go to work at the moment, but as I previously said, I'm also not 'shirking' since (with the exception of some disability benefits that I would get whether I was working or not) my income comes from private health insurance, which I get because my doctors certify that I'm ill.

 

I understand that there are people who are 'shirking' from finding work and claim benefits because that is easier than earning money in the way that society expects, but please don't lump people who are genuinely trying to pay their way and those who are too unwell to do the same in with the people who just can't be bothered.

[Ms Macbeth]

And where do you get £7.00 a week from, plus money for insurance, when you are expected to live on £40.00 per week?

 

I don't expect anyone to pay anything. I'm merely quoting what is available. A scenario could be; the non working wife of a high earning man pays the voluntary NI contribution so she is then entitled to a state pension. If the situation you're quoting - £40 is benefits income, then I thought NI contributions were automatically credited?

[willman]

Indeed, all you Daily Mail and Guardian readers slag me and other benefit claimants off till the cows come home, but how would YOU cope if you were unable to work and had to claim benefits as your only way of getting some kind of income?

 

i think you ought to take a chill pill.

 

we are talking benefit scroungers - if thats you , well you'll have to accept it.

if it's not and you are a valid benefit claimant then we haven't even mentioned you.

[*_ash_*]

<snip>

 

Throughout this thread and throughout real life, I've rarely, if ever seen anyone that has a problem with people claiming disability allowances.

 

I think peoples main gripe is with people who are perfectly capable of working but choose to live off benefits. They do exsist and there are lots of them, I've met many in places that I've worked with the public, and places that I've lived (in Sheffield).

 

There are several types of claimers IMO. Those who will never attempt to work, those who would like to work but it's not worth them working because of the amount they can claim, and those who are genuinely looking for work and using it for a safety net.

 

I think for all of them, the system stinks. The first because they deserve nothing. The second because the system isn't encouraging them to work. And the third, because if they have worked before which is more likely, they probably aren't claiming anything like what they should get.

 

But....

I reckon you ought to do as they do in the US and put a time limit on benefits,that way all the free loaders and lets be honest their are MILLLIONS of them here will either get off their arse and work or starve,their choice.

The problem with this, is that it's ok to say let them starve. But we live in a rational society. Would you be the one that cut off the benefit which inevitably meant that their kids would starve?

 

Which is why agreed with the point earlier with regards to people who can't provide for themselves.