The benefits class

[mr contrite]

You really are a legend in your own mind.

Have you no concept whatever of the ways of a capitalist economy?

 

Now that the real socialists are mostly dead, along with the unions, and the labour party has so cleverly been absorbed into middle england, there is no pretence at all that MONEY comes before PEOPLE.

 

Nationalised industries were SUBSIDISED by the taxpayer (where necessary) till Thatchers' 'greed before need' party destroyed what was potentially a

fair[er] system; the old system kept many people employed - and proud to be so, rather than paying them to sit around feeling DEPRESSED AND USELESS.

 

That was before the people of this country were seduced into the present ways of frenzied consumerism - and the grab it while you can mentallity.

 

Thatchers' crime of the century? Making people think that they NEEDED to OWN their own homes. She sold back to the people that which they had paid for a thousand times over.

 

Their low incomes and insecure jobs ensured that in the first few years of the 'Great Sell Off' THOUSANDS OF HOMES HAD BEEN REPOSSESSED and millions of hard working, honest people had been ruined and hurled onto the scrapheap of UNEMPLOYMENT.

 

The real trick was that Thatchers disgusting regime went on to convince the people that she had done them a great favour. And fools like you believed her - and quickly turned on your own.

 

What a bunch of master tacticians that government was - they very effectively applied that ancient tactic of war - DIVIDE AND CONQUER, passing it on to the present day - via people like yourself who so sadly lack any CONTRITION whatsoever.

 

Bloody hell, people still believe that crap? You really are a throwback to the bad old times when unions thought themselves more powerful than govt. The likes of Arthur Scargill was responsible for the demise of the unions, i detested Thatcher but had to give grudging respect for someone who was "not for turning" as for the great property sell off, the vast majority of people i know who took advantage of the right to buy have never been so well off, and are still living in the same property without having any rent to pay, and can look forward to secure retirements.

[CockneyMafia]

Example of the risk of believing what you read on the surface of a newspaper report

 

The truth? Their income is around £19k pa on benefits - now we earn a hell of a lot more more than that and also have no housing costs at all and would struggle to raise more than one child - their life will by no means be easy. It breaks down to around £25 each per week for each family member. The rest of their 'income' is in housing costs - bear in mind they live in Berkshire. The house is temporary as their existing one burned down - they were in unsuitable temporary housing previously, where five of the children were sharing one bedroom. Yes, it's not ideal that they have so many children but they did not 'ask to be born' and nobody with a shred of decency would be content to 'punish' the parents by punishing the children and subjecting them to third world living conditions - aside from anything else you risk turning what sound like decent kids into disturbed little chavs. The father did not have a job - he was offered one and turned it down as he realised they would not be able to afford to live on what pay was on offer. This is now a real problem for people down South with even modest families or no family trying to get off benefits, and beware - it's coming North as our own house prices soar. The only people who can afford to live on low wages in many areas without cheap state housing are itinerant workers from the former Eastern Bloc - even the civil service in London is having intense difficulties recruiting at Executive levels now.

 

At what point did the walking sperm bank realise that maybe, just maybe, the maths weren't adding up in this?

 

"money's a bit tight with the four kids love, what do you think we should do?"

 

"lets have eight more"

 

Cretins.

[Mathom]

At what point did the walking sperm bank realise that maybe, just maybe, the maths weren't adding up in this?

 

"money's a bit tight with the four kids love, what do you think we should do?"

 

"lets have eight more"

 

Cretins.

 

Again, you've not read the full story. The woman already had a few kids when they met - inevitably the new couple had a few more - many/most people cement relationships with children, even gay couples. And a few it would have been but for some odd reason she has had several sets of twins. She also believes it is a woman's role in life to have children. We don't know if she has been brought up in a conservative family or simply has limited aspirations as a woman - it wouldn't be my choice personally, and I'm quite sure a lot of mums of big families on here will be thinking "How patronising! Motherhood is an enriching experience!" And therein lies the nub of this - you do not know these people, and nor do I, and it is not in our place to be self-righteous about private matters such as what joy they get from having kids - it's as valid a joy as choosing not to have any and spend your money on 'fine wines and city breaks' after all. So they did not do the maths? Not many people do, not when the choice is between allowing the life inside their belly to be born and to kill it.

[*_ash_*]

Can I ask a simple question.

 

Is it acceptable for able bodied people to live off the state for as long as they can get away with it without even attempting to look for work?

 

I mentioned that about 6 pages ago. Nobody seems able to answer it.

[CockneyMafia]

Again, you've not read the full story. The woman already had a few kids when they met - inevitably the new couple had a few more - many/most people cement relationships with children, even gay couples. And a few it would have been but for some odd reason she has had several sets of twins. She also believes it is a woman's role in life to have children. We don't know if she has been brought up in a conservative family or simply has limited aspirations as a woman - it wouldn't be my choice personally, and I'm quite sure a lot of mums of big families on here will be thinking "How patronising! Motherhood is an enriching experience!" And therein lies the nub of this - you do not know these people, and nor do I, and it is not in our place to be self-righteous about private matters such as what joy they get from having kids - it's as valid a joy as choosing not to have any and spend your money on 'fine wines and city breaks' after all. So they did not do the maths? Not many people do, not when the choice is between allowing the life inside their belly to be born and to kill it.

 

We will simply have to agree to disagree.

[Mathom]

We will simply have to agree to disagree.

 

Indeed I mean, the authorities have been trying to deal with issues of unemployment and poverty since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and still nobody has found a perfect solution, I doubt that we will as the problems are so complex.

 

I think the essential issue is that ultimately, we are all just 'resources'.

[CockneyMafia]

Indeed I mean, the authorities have been trying to deal with issues of unemployment and poverty since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and still nobody has found a perfect solution, I doubt that we will as the problems are so complex.

 

I think the essential issue is that ultimately, we are all just 'resources'.

 

This I do agree on. Child welfare is a global issue, and having children is a privelage, not a right (in my humble opinion) Many countries, including our own, could benefit on more pragmatic thinking - it is not fair to raise children in an environment that is economically, socially and emotionally inadequate - hence why a lot of couples wait until they are financially secure (or as secrue as they can be) before starting a family.

[nick2]

many/most people cement relationships with children, even gay couples.

 

Yes, we get them mail order from Poland.

[CockneyMafia]

Yes, we get them mail order from Poland.

 

Well I got my girlfriend on mail order from Russia.

[mr contrite]

Can I ask a simple question.

 

Is it acceptable for able boided people to live off the state for as long as they can get away with it without even attempting to look for work?

 

No its not, never has been and in my eyes never will be,although from reading certain posters they seem to think it is, bring back the old days where you had to sign on for work at regular intervals, and prove you were looking for work, or lose your benefits, or be sent for job interviews by the benefits staff, at least that way they could get some exercise.