The benefits class

[convert]

my point was if you want a job it's out there. if the indigenous population wanted to work they could.

otherwise there would be little point in any one coming here for work.

and i don't recall £8.00 an hour being poverty line wages.

 

 

The problem lies in the fact, that people can be better off claiming benefits, than working for £8ph. Until that fundemental problem is addressed, and the incentives for claiming benefits are removed, then we will always have an immigrant workforce, who are quite happy to work for these so called poverty line wages. In fact I admire the immigrants who come here to work, they have both strong work and family ethics. They actually bring something good to our society. Sadly this is something that is lacking in some of our own indiginous population.

[willman]

The problem lies in the fact, that people can be better off claiming benefits, than working for £8ph. Until that fundemental problem is addressed, and the incentives for claiming benefits are removed, then we will always have an immigrant workforce, who are quite happy to work for these so called poverty line wages. In fact I admire the immigrants who come here to work, they have both strong work and family ethics. They actually bring something good to our society. Sadly this is something that is lacking in some of our own indiginous population.

 

 

i agree on both points.

[whitehall]

The problem lies in the fact, that people can be better off claiming benefits, than working for £8ph. Until that fundemental problem is addressed, and the incentives for claiming benefits are removed, then we will always have an immigrant workforce, who are quite happy to work for these so called poverty line wages. In fact I admire the immigrants who come here to work, they have both strong work and family ethics. They actually bring something good to our society. Sadly this is something that is lacking in some of our own indiginous population.

 

Where and what are these £8 / hr jobs which you percieve as being so plentiful?

I cannot afford to pay myself £8 / hr never mind anyone else.

You live in a pipedream, these jobs do not exist.

[Mathom]

You have to look at who goes on the dole and why. Straight away we can fence off cases involving people with disabilities, parents of young children, people in rural and coastal areas, those aged 50+ and people with poor educations - these are all specialist cases.

 

As for the rest, the 'average' claimant, fit and hale, with some or even a very good education, living in a thriving area like Sheffield, there has to be another reason why they don't work and I still believe we can find an answer by looking at housing costs.

 

One problem is that nobody on benefits can ever take up a temporary job, and that's shame because we have loads around Christmas time and they boost skills and self esteem. They can't take them up because of the problem with claims for housing benefit being held up - Sheffield has a notoriously shambolic system. Take housing benefit out of the control of councils and introducing 'claims freezes' which can be 'defrosted' quickly, you could potentially solve this sticking point in one swoop.

 

The other problem is with costs of housing. I presume (but don't actually know!) council housing rents are still low, but private sector rents are not and we have more and more people having to pay ridiculous rents as housing stocks dwindle and house prices rise. This is why Eastern Europeans are in the jobs British people would usually be in - they can manage to get by in rough and ready housing for a few months, people who need permanent homes cannot. Agricultural work is a good example - housing costs in villages are astronomical and labouring wages don't match up - so the locals with low skills just have to claim in order to afford a home to live in, while the Poles (for example) picking lettuces and sprouts live in caravans for a few months before going back home to Poland.

[whitehall]

You have to look at who goes on the dole and why. Straight away we can fence off cases involving people with disabilities, parents of young children, people in rural and coastal areas, those aged 50+ and people with poor educations - these are all specialist cases.

 

As for the rest, the 'average' claimant, fit and hale, with some or even a very good education, living in a thriving area like Sheffield, there has to be another reason why they don't work and I still believe we can find an answer by looking at housing costs.

 

One problem is that nobody on benefits can ever take up a temporary job, and that's shame because we have loads around Christmas time and they boost skills and self esteem. They can't take them up because of the problem with claims for housing benefit being held up - Sheffield has a notoriously shambolic system. Take housing benefit out of the control of councils and introducing 'claims freezes' which can be 'defrosted' quickly, you could potentially solve this sticking point in one swoop.

 

The other problem is with costs of housing. I presume (but don't actually know!) council housing rents are still low, but private sector rents are not and we have more and more people having to pay ridiculous rents as housing stocks dwindle and house prices rise. This is why Eastern Europeans are in the jobs British people would usually be in - they can manage to get by in rough and ready housing for a few months, people who need permanent homes cannot. Agricultural work is a good example - housing costs in villages are astronomical and labouring wages don't match up - so the locals with low skills just have to claim in order to afford a home to live in, while the Poles (for example) picking lettuces and sprouts live in caravans for a few months before going back home to Poland.

 

That is far too sensible and straight forward

Unless it involves filling 20 page forms in, which have to send back, checked, rechecked then lost completely, and have to be done again, then it is not sufficient.

When it comes to bureaucracy the Romans and Nazis had nothing on the DSS

[Mathom]

That is far too sensible and straight forward

Unless it involves filling 20 page forms in, which have to send back, checked, rechecked then lost completely, and have to be done again, then it is not sufficient.

When it comes to bureaucracy the Romans and Nazis had nothing on the DSS

 

That would be the DWP

 

However, their red tape is as nothing compared to the company that do the housing benefit for Sheffield Council - they're like something from Gormenghast or a Terry Gilliam nightmare...

[Dungbeetle]

The other problem is with costs of housing. I presume (but don't actually know!) council housing rents are still low, but private sector rents are not and we have more and more people having to pay ridiculous rents as housing stocks dwindle and house prices rise. This is why Eastern Europeans are in the jobs British people would usually be in - they can manage to get by in rough and ready housing for a few months, people who need permanent homes cannot. Agricultural work is a good example - housing costs in villages are astronomical and labouring wages don't match up - so the locals with low skills just have to claim in order to afford a home to live in, while the Poles (for example) picking lettuces and sprouts live in caravans for a few months before going back home to Poland.

Housing cost is a massive factor in keeping the work-shy out of work. By paying claimants' rents, the state can give them more disposable income than they would have in a low paid job – and I mean just relatively low commensurate with their employability, not impoverished.

 

Clearly, while a restricted period of full rent assistance may be justifiable, the long-term work-shy should be transferred to cheap and basic hostel accommodation rather than having the taxpayer fund their comfort in their own homes.

[Grandad.Malky]

Where and what are these £8 / hr jobs which you percieve as being so plentiful?

I cannot afford to pay myself £8 / hr never mind anyone else.

You live in a pipedream, these jobs do not exist.

 

 

 

Obviously you have the Internet, the jobs are there if you look.

 

After working for the same company for 30 years and being made redundant in my 40`s I expected the worse, I was unemployed for one week, the jobs are there for those that “want” to work.

[Dungbeetle]

Obviously you have the Internet, the jobs are there if you look.

 

After working for the same company for 30 years and being made redundant in my 40`s I expected the worse, I was unemployed for one week, the jobs are there for those that “want” to work.

That's very true. I was talking to an old acquaintance on Friday who hasn't worked for a year or two. The conversation was filled with comments about the jobs he's not willing to do, or that don't pay what he wants.

 

He's capable of work, but simply won't, so he's now managed to get the extra free taxpayer's gift of incapacity benefit.

[whitehall]

Obviously you have the Internet, the jobs are there if you look.

 

After working for the same company for 30 years and being made redundant in my 40`s I expected the worse, I was unemployed for one week, the jobs are there for those that “want” to work.

 

Completely wrong.

I am now self employed as I could not get low paid unskilled work, no matter how I tried.

They took one look at my CV, weighed up my experience and qualifications, and I was given coffee and biscuits and out the door.

When you are a highly qualified engineering manager, who wants a career change to a labourer, they just do not believe you.

I was fed up with high pressure neverending stress and wanted to work in a low key job.

But when you are more qualified and experienced than the man running the department he is too frightened to employ you even as the tea boy.