The benefits class

[Dungbeetle]

you're assuming that someone who earns, say £60k a year works harder than someone who earns, say £12k a year. Not always the case. I work in a company that employs people on all different pay scales, from >£100k to <£15k. the people on £15k may work just as hard as people on £40k, or £50k etc.

 

Just because you earn a good wage or have a lot of cash doesn't mean you work harder than someone who doesn't.

Not in all cases, but would you say that the person who over 25 years works up from the shop floor to running the business works no harder than the one who still wraps parcels in the warehouse?

 

Our society does reward talent and hard work with better wages and positions. The people in those positions didn't get there without drive and work in the first place.

[Mathom]

I would be happy to leave them to it if they weren’t a drain on my taxes. But they are- and I’d like to see the numbers in incapacity and income support slashed and forced to work to reduce the hideous tax burden on the country’s hardest workers.

 

How can they be forced to work if there aren't enough jobs, as you claimed just a few posts back? Or could you just be arguing for the sake of it?

[Mathom]

I used to think like you, but then I asked myself a couple of questions:

1. Do these people have a better life than me?

2. Would I swap places with them?

 

So now, although it does wind me up that some people never intend to work or contribute, I just think "if that's the life they want for themselves then leave them to it".

 

The problem with doing away with the NHS (which is what you seem to be suggesting) is that it favours the rich. you end up with working class people getting worse treatment than the middle classes. Now where health is concearned I don't think this should be the case!

 

That's what most people would say and it's fair. After a bit of time on the dole a lot of the real layabouts will wake up to themselves and realise they can't have a big night out with their mates, can't have nice clothes, can't have a new PlayStation or a holiday and get themselves into work. The pay-off of work is that you have your own money that you control by getting loans/credit/mortgages etc as the need arises and you hopefully have more of it! That's why money is purposely kept at a subsistence level, anything above that is for children or people with special needs.

[Dungbeetle]

How can they be forced to work if there aren't enough jobs, as you claimed just a few posts back? Or could you just be arguing for the sake of it?

There are jobs - we just send all the foreigners back and makes them pick crops in Norfolk - the accommodation is there too because the Romanians and Poles have been using it.

Even if they're not in separately paid jobs, they should work for their dole.

If they're taxing money from the state, they could be formed up into work gangs for the council. Councils don't ever have sufficient budgets to do everything they need to do - imagine how nice the paths in the Peak District could be if we had tens of thousands of free labourers. Or the extra teams available to dig roads, pick up litter, weed flowerbeds, sort rubbish at landfill sites - the list could go on indefinitely.

[Danny_Boy]

I can see your argument, but I don’t agree that we need to encourage people to have children.

The world’s population is exploding because we’ve meddled with the third world and given food and medical aid to nations that will now breed like locusts because infant mortality rates have been reduced.

Closer to home, we don’t have enough jobs in the UK, and we have a serious housing shortfall that will see property prices continue to rise above inflation for at least 20 years. Do you seriously think we need to encourage people to have kids?

 

I have read so many posts that I agree with on here that I don't no where to base an opinion. Something needs to be done about society's dregs that's one of my opinions I don't exactly no what, I am not a fan of capital punishment but I do think parents should be able to discipline there children as they see fit. I have a strong belief that there is a link between parents that have children and cant be bothered to pay for them and sit around claiming benefits all day bring kids up that do the same have a lack of respect and after end up involved in gang culture etc. When I was young some people used to show off by saying I grew up with a silver spoon in my "gob" but surely that shouldn't be an insult?? Some people are proud that the screw the system for every penny, I know someone who's attitude is "why should I work" and that attitude makes me angry. But having read some other peoples stories on here especially the genuine claimants I feel sorry for these people because its obviously a system that favors the cheaters and the scum rather than the genuine. The NHS, state pension ,disabled person living allowance, ssp, child benefits and tax credits are all excellent ideas imo, but benefits like job seekers need re-evaluating big style as too many people take the Michael. I used to honestly think the whole welfare state should be scrapped and you should get what you earn and work for, but now I don't, I still see myself as a capitalist but agree with some socialist policies. The harder you worked at school the harder you study at uni the more intelligent you are all factors that I think should reflect a persons salaries. Maybe if we all took a bit more social responsibility we would all be ok and live happily every after Who knows, but that's my two pence worth.

[Dungbeetle]

I have read so many posts that I agree with on here that I don't no where to base an opinion. Something needs to be done about society's dregs that's one of my opinions I don't exactly no what, I am not a fan of capital punishment but I do think parents should be able to discipline there children as they see fit. I have a strong belief that there is a link between parents that have children and cant be bothered to pay for them and sit around claiming benefits all day bring kids up that do the same have a lack of respect and after end up involved in gang culture etc. When I was young some people used to show off by saying I grew up with a silver spoon in my "gob" but surely that shouldn't be an insult?? Some people are proud that the screw the system for every penny, I know someone who's attitude is "why should I work" and that attitude makes me angry. But having read some other peoples stories on here especially the genuine claimants I feel sorry for these people because its obviously a system that favors the cheaters and the scum rather than the genuine. The NHS, state pension ,disabled person living allowance, ssp, child benefits and tax credits are all excellent ideas imo, but benefits like job seekers need re-evaluating big style as too many people take the Michael. I used to honestly think the whole welfare state should be scrapped and you should get what you earn and work for, but now I don't, I still see myself as a capitalist but agree with some socialist policies. The harder you worked at school the harder you study at uni the more intelligent you are all factors that I think should reflect a persons salaries. Maybe if we all took a bit more social responsibility we would all be ok and live happily every after Who knows, but that's my two pence worth.

 

[Mathom]

There are jobs - we just send all the foreigners back and makes them pick crops in Norfolk - the accommodation is there too because the Romanians and Poles have been using it.

Even if they're not in separately paid jobs, they should work for their dole.

If they're taxing money from the state, they could be formed up into work gangs for the council. Councils don't ever have sufficient budgets to do everything they need to do - imagine how nice the paths in the Peak District could be if we had tens of thousands of free labourers. Or the extra teams available to dig roads, pick up litter, weed flowerbeds, sort rubbish at landfill sites - the list could go on indefinitely.

 

There are jobs, there aren't jobs, which is it?

 

You cannot put children into the kind of accommodation migrant workers are using - it would be against the UN Convention I'm afraid. And England is a civilised country.

 

And what good is putting people into make-work schemes going to do for your precious tax bill? If anything it will make it soar even higher because you're going to have to employ even more administrators and managers to run such schemes - as proven with previous make-work schemes which were unproductive and expensive. The only purpose in such schemes is to satisfy peculiar revenge fantasies and I aint happy with MY taxes going to satisfy people's inadequacies at being able to deal with the idea of poor people getting a handout.

[Dungbeetle]

There are jobs, there aren't jobs, which is it?

You cannot put children into the kind of accommodation migrant workers are using - it would be against the UN Convention I'm afraid. And England is a civilised country.

I care nothing for UN meddling – we should just ignore it. I’d offer civilised conditions to civilised tax payers.

 

And what good is putting people into make-work schemes going to do for your precious tax bill? If anything it will make it soar even higher because you're going to have to employ even more administrators and managers to run such schemes - as proven with previous make-work schemes which were unproductive and expensive. The only purpose in such schemes is to satisfy peculiar revenge fantasies and I aint happy with MY taxes going to satisfy people's inadequacies at being able to deal with the idea of poor people getting a handout.

No, if they were actually made to get out of bed and work, don’t you think they might think they may as well get a proper job. And the ones already working but having a morning off every 2 weeks to sign on would have to stop claiming.

Even if they aren’t made to work, they should be sent to holding centres and have to sit there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to prove that they’re not working elsewhere. Give them access to phones and Internet so they can job search, bit don’t let them lie about at home or go working for cash.

[Mathom]

I care nothing for UN meddling – we should just ignore it. I’d offer civilised conditions to civilised tax payers.

 

No, if they were actually made to get out of bed and work, don’t you think they might think they may as well get a proper job. And the ones already working but having a morning off every 2 weeks to sign on would have to stop claiming.

Even if they aren’t made to work, they should be sent to holding centres and have to sit there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to prove that they’re not working elsewhere. Give them access to phones and Internet so they can job search, bit don’t let them lie about at home or go working for cash.

 

Making sure people are not working while claiming is the job of you, me and the benefit fraud teams. It surprises me how many horror stories are on here about people claiming but nobody ever reports anyone, and without that knowledge, fraud don't have a hope in hell of catching anyone.

 

If people were in make-work schemes they sure as hell wouldn't be working steadily like you or me might work in our jobs! There'd be so much skiving and petty theft that pretty soon employers would be refusing to take people on. That's what happened in previous schemes and the memory of it means a lot of employers remain terrified of taking on youngsters under new workplace training schemes. Managers pretty soon stop doing much 'managing' and end up like glorified security staff.

 

Besides, with a simple change in the rules on benefit, thousands could be taking up temp jobs and getting experience and real wages, but the rules are such that they can't.

[StarSparkle]

It just galls me that I take virtually nothing from the system, but have to give 41% of what I earn to our lefty government, who will in turn give the biggest chunk of that cash to dole monkeys.

The welfare state shold be replaced by private income insurance schemes, like we have Bupa for medical care. That way everybody pays for themselves.

 

You should count yourself as one of the lucky ones then, the ones who are fortunate enough not to need help from the state. Not everyone is so lucky.

 

Who knows, one of these days you may well find yourself being in need of some help - no-one knows what is round the corner for any of us - and you will be very glad then that people like yourself were required to pay into the system to support others.

 

StarSparkle