The benefits class

[mr contrite]

a recent story here concerned a family with 4 kids aged 7, 5, 3, and 1 who were complaining that they had been trying to get the council to move them from the 2 bedroom house they presently living in, to a 3 bedroom house, nothing wrong with that, you might say, but then it went on to say that they had been trying to get moved since 2001, which would have meant that at the time they only had 1 child, so why have more kids if they were unable to house them themselves, the husband in question is known to me, and does not work.

[happyhippy]

If such places were sufficiently basic and comfortless to provide nothing more than shelter, heat and somewhere to eat and sleep, the scroungers would have more incentive to get out and work to provide for themselves.

 

I don't mind paying a 4-figure tax bill every month if the portion used by the welfare state is going to help people who genuinely need it, but it does gall me that so many claimants are either the professional work-shy or on the fiddle for cash jobs.

Half of the houses on our council estates should carry banners saying "kindly sponsored by the hard-working middle class taxpayer" to remind the spongers inside to get out and look for work.

 

All of which are empty, and only furnished by people who pay for it. The vast majority of families who receive the privilege of council housing, on benefits or not, have to fund their own luxuries, such as carpets, cookers, beds, etc.

 

Those on benefits will receive a loan to aid this, taken back by the Government from their benefit, or salary should they subsequently get one. So, albeit from the money given, which is the amount the law says people have to have on which to survive, yes, they do pay for it.

 

As a working class, working family, given your description above, I'm glad to see that our taxes are clearly ring fenced so as not to contribute to the world you so clearly believe exists.

[happyhippy]

Indeed it is, but why should it be? Why should one person pay for another to have kids?

 

My parents, and those of their generation, planned for a family. They would save, do without luxuries, and plan for when they had the resources in place to settle down and have children.

 

They didn’t go around irresponsibly getting each other up the duff and expecting the taxpayer to foot the bill for their hordes of illegitimate, mal-adjusted tearaways. Our underclasses are growing because we encourage them to breed through our ridiculously lax and generous benefits system.

 

It is ridiculous that people who choose to have a family are given extra money for it through child benefit, family tax credits or whatever it’s called now. I choose to have fast bikes and cars – that’s my lifestyle choice. Maybe I should be entitled to vehicle credits?

 

We could learn a lot from the Chinese about reducing birth rates – they at least have taken sensible measures.

 

And why should the rich receive more money for the sake of having had offspring?

 

Are the badly brought up children of well paid people in the suburbs different from those from less fortunate backgrounds? What about those from hard working families who have fallen on hard times? Are you really so naive?

[happyhippy]

Do you need to ask? Just look up some of Bartfast's old posts? They usually involve the kind of Nazi ubermensch fantasies that sad men sitting in front of computers in nowt but their underpants in their parents' back bedroom dream up to be 'different'.

 

Meanwhile in the real world real solutions are needed. There have always been a certain amount of people who will be hardcore cases and will use every excuse in the book NOT to work. In the past, they resorted to crime to live, when the welfare state came in they did not have to resort to crime, and that's one big reason why we opt to use that system in this country. We've moved on from Dickensian times, for the good.

 

The answer is to remove every possible excuse, however the problem is that as soon as we block off one escape route another appears. In the 80s/90s we had recession. Now we have the lack of housing due to the property boom, and polarisation of jobs into urban areas.

 

The state's job is not to penalise people for the circumstances in greater society which give them excuses, but to remove or alleviate those circumstances. Which is why we are now going to compel 16-19s to work or train, why we have anti-discrimination laws, and why Tax Credits have come in to encourage mums to work.

 

I'd far rather look for intelligent solutions than something that might have been dreamed up by an oaf grunting in a cave. I'd hope society has now advanced beyond the febrile fantasies of impotent fascists.

 

Quite right.

[happyhippy]

I can see your argument, but I don’t agree that we need to encourage people to have children.

The world’s population is exploding because we’ve meddled with the third world and given food and medical aid to nations that will now breed like locusts because infant mortality rates have been reduced.

Closer to home, we don’t have enough jobs in the UK, and we have a serious housing shortfall that will see property prices continue to rise above inflation for at least 20 years. Do you seriously think we need to encourage people to have kids?

 

Who's encouraging it? I'd love to see the DWP leaflet which is titled "Have a child! Have an income!".

[happyhippy]

I care nothing for UN meddling – we should just ignore it. I’d offer civilised conditions to civilised tax payers.

 

No, if they were actually made to get out of bed and work, don’t you think they might think they may as well get a proper job. And the ones already working but having a morning off every 2 weeks to sign on would have to stop claiming.

Even if they aren’t made to work, they should be sent to holding centres and have to sit there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to prove that they’re not working elsewhere. Give them access to phones and Internet so they can job search, bit don’t let them lie about at home or go working for cash.

 

And in one fell swoop, 160,000 DWP jobs are lost, to add to the workhouse. This has turned into a Monty Python sketch.

[Dungbeetle]

Higher tax bill as re a previous post..Who runs the workhouses?

In any case workhouses were a product of the Victorian era where people were used as virtual slaves.I would like to think that Britain has progressed a bit since then.

Perhaps, but we do have underclasses full of worthless wretches whose place in society might just be best suited to workhouses or, shall we say, cheap state manual labour.

 

Higher tax? So, you suggest that replacing the benefits system which is totally government funded with a work insurance scheme paid for by the individual with a government subsidy would raise taxes?

 

Are you being remotely serious in anything you say?

[Danny_Boy]

god tha program tonight with the derby chav with 17 kids really wound me up

 

I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week, and he still earns a few hundred more than me a month - and all he does is fish and **** about

 

castrate the ****, and cut his benefits down is what i say - and have him done for adultery if he's married to both , if not she shouldnt be called his " Second Wife"

 

It was rather annoying watching that programme because that filthy lazy scrubber nearly gets double what I earn and I work 46 hours a week and study on top of that. How is it fair that he can afford a television like that cars like the ones he had and all the toys and things for the children when I have to work over time to give my kids a nice birthday/christmas situations like that make me very angry and I know he was a pick of a bad bunch but still that situation is a joke and no way should someone be able to get away with that. Has anyone else noticed that people like him all seem to talk the same and have the same bad/agresive attitude? Anne was right with the idea that people should have to work for their benefits even if its just 15 hours a week cleaning the streets they should be made to put something back into the society that they take so much from! £38k a year for sitting on his fat arris that is a joke!

 

Another point I took from the programme was what a bad example he was setting for his children, having two wives/girlfriends who obviousley have no self esteem or they wouldnt be willing to share a scruff like him. He didnt work and now he has 18 kids of which how many will follow on his footsteps leaving another massive bill for the hard working tax payer! I wish we could bring more hard working imigrants in and swop them for waste of life/space idiots like him, then this country would be a hell of a nicer place to live!

[HarmOKnee]

god tha program tonight with the derby chav with 17 kids really wound me up

 

I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week, and he still earns a few hundred more than me a month - and all he does is fish and **** about

 

castrate the ****, and cut his benefits down is what i say - and have him done for adultery if he's married to both , if not she shouldnt be called his " Second Wife"

 

Really wound me up too! Especially when he decided to bandage his wrist so he couldn't carry on working. All that stuff he had -including a sports car & 4X4. I work full time & struggling to pay car tax & MOT for my 10 year old micra!

 

I want Ann Widdecome to come over here and find me a job that pays £300 per week!

[Blade1983]

Not in all cases, but would you say that the person who over 25 years works up from the shop floor to running the business works no harder than the one who still wraps parcels in the warehouse?

 

Our society does reward talent and hard work with better wages and positions. The people in those positions didn't get there without drive and work in the first place.

 

well in my line of work it's more about rewarding; brown nosing, **** sucking and back stabbing. that's how you climb the ladder in the real world. you don't get many managers who are actually any good at doing their job.