timo Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Hazel, Yes, the apparent complete lack of parenting "skills" must play a significant part here. I wouldn't trust those on the programme to water a cactus, never mind look after a child. Don't you think that far too many parents today are overly protective and sentimental on one hand, yet neglectful on the other. Sadly, with the move towards a privatised, home-based lifestyle there has been a rise in selfishness amongst [some of] the population. This can be seen in the way in which parents over-identify with their offspring [living vicariously through them], whilst at the same time not imposing required discipline. I don't want a return to "Victorian values", but the idea that with rights come firm duties needs to be hammered home to [particularly teenage] children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazel Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I spent 17yrs working in reception class---4-5yr olds and encountered lots of cchildren who didn't understand the word NO once a child realises it cannot have evrything it wants, it's a good start. Once a child sees that you mean what you say and are not going to give in you can build from there. Lay down the rules while they are small and they will hopefully follow them as adults. Most people are not prepared to put ithe time in with their children, they shower them with presents, deseigner clothes etc and forget that most of all they need their attention and time. Surely we cannot afford to cast of these "chavs " on one side without giving them some lifeline if thier parents don't. I don't know the solution but someone might. I used to say at school, that I don't have a magic wand over the classroom door that makes them behave you know. A good firm no in the right place does a world of good hazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmwalker Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 yes, the program was sickening and extremely worrying, but did no one feel any compassion towards the kids? I was brought up on a housing estate in a one parent family for a while, and was lucky to have a mother in employment, and a large family who encouraged us to always do well at school etc. Unfortunately, a large number of children are born into 'family's' in area's where there are very low chances of full time fulfilling employment (eg, ex-mining communities etc). In these circumstances, the children see, by watching their family and the majority of the community around them, that even if you do do well at school and get a job there appears to be very little chance of improving your 'lot in life'. Therefore they 'give up' before they've even started, and start to think that maybe the best they can get out of life is a council house and a baby as soon as possible! Yes, I know this isnt the truth, but if you are faced with this sort of life, day in, day out, you soon loose any dreams and hopes, and hence stop making any effort at school etc, when you start to belive that you wont have a better life than your parents etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Originally posted by emmwalker yes, the program was sickening and extremely worrying, but did no one feel any compassion towards the kids? I was brought up on a housing estate in a one parent family for a while, and was lucky to have a mother in employment, and a large family who encouraged us to always do well at school etc. Unfortunately, a large number of children are born into 'family's' in area's where there are very low chances of full time fulfilling employment (eg, ex-mining communities etc). In these circumstances, the children see, by watching their family and the majority of the community around them, that even if you do do well at school and get a job there appears to be very little chance of improving your 'lot in life'. Therefore they 'give up' before they've even started, and start to think that maybe the best they can get out of life is a council house and a baby as soon as possible! Yes, I know this isnt the truth, but if you are faced with this sort of life, day in, day out, you soon loose any dreams and hopes, and hence stop making any effort at school etc, when you start to belive that you wont have a better life than your parents etc. I was bought up on a Council estate, with both parents, in the 1960s. My dad was a labourer (semi-skilled) and my mum a cleaning lady. General career paths for people in my family / locale were : the pit, the military, labouring, the council. My parents decided to do what they could to ensure that I'd get whatever opportunities I could to get out of that pattern, and I was fortunate enough to be able to do so. However, it required sacrifice from them and some hard work from me. Of course I can empathise with the despair that these people may feel - but someone who's selfish enough to have a kid just to get a house is not someone I can feel any sympathy for whatsoever. However, two things that I was bought up with and that seems lacking in many of these people is a sense of self-respect and a feeling that they have duties and responsibilities in society as well as the 'rights' that they're so keen on reminding us of. It isn't easy to get out of the pits that these people have been dropped in by feckless parents and a social welfare system that, rather than working to create real jobs in the local economy makes it easier to do bugger all and get benefits. The social welfare system that we've ended up with is almost like a drug pusher - it deals with the pain by providing short term solutions. Whilst we need a system to support those that cannot work due to age, sickness, disability or genuine lack of jobs, we also need that system to be such that it actively discourages mindless production of children as a means of social betterment, and encourages the capable to get back in to work by creating genuine jobs in the local economy and making the benefits system as uninviting as possible. Yup....my Atilla The Hun hat is definitely getting some serious wear this week. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timo Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I think that what is likely to happen is the further distancing of the other socio-economic groups [particularly the cognitive elite- the professional middle classes] from the Underclass. I am pessimistic about human "nature", and tend to believe the worst will happen. The "chavs", in al likelihood will continue to enjoy the benefits of their dependency culture because there isn't the will to roll back the welfare state . Sadly, the left/liberal consensus rules, with [my only hope] the Tories lurching further towards social liberalism under the malign influence of Letwin and his friends. The situation will worsen, our taxes will rise further, and we shall all have to do our very best to insulate ourselves against the 21st Century's "Undeserving Poor". Poor? On 30 grand a year...?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatalieSheff Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by timo The situation will worsen, our taxes will rise further, and we shall all have to do our very best to insulate ourselves against the 21st Century's "Undeserving Poor". Poor? On 30 grand a year...?! £30k takes the p***, you know what happens in cyprus if you dont have a job? F all, you dont work, you dont eat - tough ****. Gees if i lost my job, id do anything until i found a more suitable position. (prob something to do with mortgage and car) they are lazy b******s, why the hell should i pay for them ??? only thing ill pay for, for them is bloomin condoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsey5000uk Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 what do u class as a kid thought???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsey5000uk Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 what do u class as a young mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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