Air pistols & guns. Time for them to be licensed?

[TimeTravelle]

Even if weapons were to be licensed (which I don't see happening to be honest - our dear govt is more likely to just ban them outright!) I don't see why it should restrict the enjoyment of the average shooter as they will be able to show a reason for having a weapon and will have somewhere to shoot them. Perhaps you would like to supply a counter-argument to this without your earlier sophistry?

 

Because there is no compelling reason because it would not stop criminals. In a liberal society, also, why should you have to be given a licence to do something?

[evildrneil]

Because there is no compelling reason because it would not stop criminals. In a liberal society, also, why should you have to be given a licence to do something?

 

There are many things in a liberal society that you have to be licensed to do if they are deemed potentially dangerous to yourself or others. Shooting things is by definition potentially dangerous so why shouldn't it come under the same rules as for example driving a vehicle, selling alcohol or drugs etc. Or do you think these should also be unrestricted?

[melthebell]

Because there is no compelling reason because it would not stop criminals. In a liberal society, also, why should you have to be given a licence to do something?

 

ive given two reasons why it might help to (maybe not fully stop) criminals

 

1: making it easier to spot people illegally firing air guns outside.

 

2: stop people who may practice / get a taste for guns from taking it up and maybe moving onto the real thing later on (illegally)

[mrteabag]

im a member of these forums http://airgunhunter.freeforums.org/index.php

http://www.airgununiverse.co.uk/forum/index.php

im sure they would help out in any questions and stuff anyone needs answering from reponsible air gunners

[TimeTravelle]

There are many things in a liberal society that you have to be licensed to do if they are deemed potentially dangerous to yourself or others. Shooting things is by definition potentially dangerous so why shouldn't it come under the same rules as for example driving a vehicle, selling alcohol or drugs etc. Or do you think these should also be unrestricted?

 

Shooting is already licenced indirectly through legislation in terms of use and ownership ... restrictions akin to those for driving a vehicle and selling alcohol.

 

One question for you: how will licensing stop criminality with guns?

[TimeTravelle]

ive given two reasons why it might help to (maybe not fully stop) criminals

 

1: making it easier to spot people illegally firing air guns outside.

 

2: stop people who may practice / get a taste for guns from taking it up and maybe moving onto the real thing later on (illegally)

 

Okay:

 

1. How exactly? And people firing guns in public places without lawful permission is already illegal...

 

2. "Getting a taste" for guns doesn't lead to them wanting to break the law ... we need to get over this idea I think.

[melthebell]

Okay:

 

1. How exactly? And people firing guns in public places without lawful permission is already illegal...

 

2. "Getting a taste" for guns doesn't lead to them wanting to break the law ... we need to get over this idea I think.

 

1: as ive said loads before, at the minute the rules and regs are all over the place, how do the police know somebody was so and so far away from that fence, that road, that hedge? they might have been closer, they mightve moved away when the police came and deny they were there.

if shooting is licensed maybe to gun clubs only, the only people shooting outside are doing so illegally, simple, you find em you arrest em.

 

2: how do you know somebody doesnt fire their dads pistol, get a taste for it and find out where to buy the real thing illegally?

it goes on with mopeds, motorbikes, cars...people get a backy on somebodys moped as a kid and without a license etc they "aquire" theyre own moped, motorbike, car. just because you dont and all legally held people dont doesnt mean EVERYBODY doesnt

i dont believe you just suddenly develop a taste for guns, or by listening to bad old rap music or suddenly finding somebody selling a gun and think ooh ill pay £50 for one, i think its deeper than that

[Dungbeetle]

A gun is a weapon is a weapon is a gun. A gun, be it air powered or propellant (shotgun or secion 1) powered is primarily designed to kill, be it game or vermin.

Except for those that are only designed for target shooting, which is a large proportion of air rifles, and all air pistols – every single one in the country.

 

I read in one post that an air weapon cannot be used within 50 feet of a public highway or public right of way. Wouldn't this exclude most back gardens when 'plinking', as I would guess most houses are on a street, the distance from the street to back garden being less than 50 feet??

The next paragraph of the firearms act is something that few people, and this applies to most Policemen and firearms licensing officers as it happens, have not read in sufficient depth.

 

The Act does state that no weapon (air, or cartridge) can be used within 50 feet of the centre of a public highway, but it goes on to say “if to do so would cause alarm to the public”. So, you can blast pigeons out of a tree on the edge of the road with a 12 bore on the border of a farm if there’s nobody there to be frightened by it, or only people who don’t find it alarming, and you can shoot in your garden 5 feet from the road if your activity is shielded by walls/solid fencing so people don’t see you and think you’re going to massacre them, or indeed if your neighbours and people passing by are happy with you shooting.

 

So, I would quite like to hear a compelling argument why they shouldn't be licensed,

 

1. Shotguns and firearms, as you know, will do a lot of damage. Point an air pistol at the glass shield in a bank, and I don’t think even the average tiller will be too worried. Start blasting a shotgun or firearm, and the robber will have the desired effect. The air gun is of little use to the armed robber or hardened criminal – a drug gang armed with air pistols would get laughed out of business by their competitors.

 

2. You can’t use a shotgun in you back garden. Even though the fall of shot from a 12-bore is harmless after a couple of hundred yards, neighbours wouldn’t want the earth-shattering booms of a 12-bore from just the other side of the fence. Similarly, you can’t use a cartridge rifle or pistol, because although most can be sound moderated, the safety traces start at half a mile, and go up to several miles, so there’s no way you can safely use them at home. You can however safely use an air gun in your garden – quietly, and without risk of damage to persons or property as long as you apply some simple, common sense measures. The air rifle or pistol therefore has a safe use which does not require access to club facilities or expanses of approved land.

 

3. With tens of thousands of FAC holders, licensing is achievable and manageable for the Police. With estimates of 4-6 million air guns in the country, licensing would require massive diversion of Police resources to handle the initial amnesties and licensing operation, and a continued expansion of the licensing departments to maintain currency of existing certificates and issue new ones. I would rather the Poice apply their time to more pressing issues.

 

4. Licensing air guns will not make already law-abiding air gun owners any safer, and it will not make already law-breaking people who would not apply for certificates any less dangerous.

 

A gun has one use; to fire a projectile accurately with the intention of dispatching the quarry quickly and humanely, or hitting a target be it moving or stationary. Thats it. Yup, I can smash you over the head with a hammer, beat you senseless with a baseball bat, stab you with a pair of scissors so, license (Note not 'ban') them as well, but these are 'secondary' (if thats the right word??!!) uses to their intended purpose.

I’m afraid your example of bats and scissors proves little. A golf club is built for the purpose of propelling a golf ball at a hole in the ground, with a secondary use of hitting somebody on the noggin. A target gun is built for the purpose of propelling a pellet or bullet into a paper target, with a secondary use of firing a projectile illegally at a person. In both cases, they have a primary purpose very different to that which can be applied illegally.

 

Many people play darts – miniature spears, based very closely on the design of items used to kill people and animals. They are dangerous little devices which will punch a hole through a human skull if misused – I saw that done to a young boy when I was a nipper. They’re openly available to thugs, there’s a history of them being misused at football matches, and they are capable of inflicting more damage – especially at longer range – than an air pistol. Should darts be banned or licensed??

[AliPasha]

ill say it slowly

 

i was just thinking if there was any data for such actions or if there should be.

im sure most people dont grow up with a love, knowledge, able to use handguns WITHOUT proper training OR using air pistols in your youth

 

No data on this as far as I am aware, but there must be few blokes (at least) who have not fired an air pistol at some point in their youth, does this count as practice? I know of no cases of 'hoodies' being arrested or cautioned for engeging in target practice with air weapons (undoubtedly in opublic parks or illeagally on someones land).

 

No, the sad thing is that it is easy to fire a 'real' pistol or similar. **** the gun, take of the safety and 'Bob's your uncle'. The reason (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong) that this poor little lad was shot dead was because the shooter missed he target he was aiming at, i.e. he was a crap shot. Handguns when shot from the back of a bike are really not that accurate.

 

Does having an airgun want to make me shoot a real gun? Well, yes, I'm interested to see what its like, but the hassle of trying to own one is far too great. But that desire deos not want to make me go out and shoot people and animals in contravention of the law. That's the difference.

 

This story of the 14 year old buying an airgun is very worrying. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped on hard, if you know if it report it otherwise we are acquiesing in a crime.

 

The problem with any sort of licensing is that it is so complicated that the easy way out is an outright ban. As Dungbeetle pointed out above its easy to make us all seem like gun toting, politically incorrect, misogynist, racist death traps (I'm of course a nice easygoing liberal guy). This is why I and others really want to try to communicate what seems to us perfectly logical arguements.

 

We can of course introduce some sort of registraiton upon purchase, indeed from October is is mandatory by registered firearms dealers (the only place where one will be abkle to purchase an aigun). I doubt this will impede in any way the rising tide of gun crime, and I have my doubts whether the police will really bother to check that closely.

[TimeTravelle]

1: as ive said loads before, at the minute the rules and regs are all over the place, how do the police know somebody was so and so far away from that fence, that road, that hedge? they might have been closer, they mightve moved away when the police came and deny they were there.

if shooting is licensed maybe to gun clubs only, the only people shooting outside are doing so illegally, simple, you find em you arrest em.

 

2: how do you know somebody doesnt fire their dads pistol, get a taste for it and find out where to buy the real thing illegally?

it goes on with mopeds, motorbikes, cars...people get a backy on somebodys moped as a kid and without a license etc they "aquire" theyre own moped, motorbike, car. just because you dont and all legally held people dont doesnt mean EVERYBODY doesnt

i dont believe you just suddenly develop a taste for guns, or by listening to bad old rap music or suddenly finding somebody selling a gun and think ooh ill pay £50 for one, i think its deeper than that

 

1. But it is already illegal to do that outside!!!!! Not sure how many times I have to make that point. Why would any restrictions to using guns at a club prevent chavs from using it in public when it already carries a 5 year term in jail for doing so!?! And the laws and regulations are not all over the place, they are very clear and very exact. Ignorance about them though appears to be everywhere.

 

2. I agree it is deeper -- and it is the association with gangs and rap music which has caused this, I honestly do. I know you don;'t and I know you have an interest in this area. But the videos posted on YouTube of kids in Liverpool waving their "tools" around are directly akin to gangster music gamourisation of crime.