Air pistols & guns. Time for them to be licensed?

[Dungbeetle]

Ye I would - if they want to plink safely then they can do so at clubs / ranges.

That’s a little bit like saying your kids have to go to a sports ground to play with their bat and ball when they could play in the garden. Don’t they have to start somewhere?

 

[i would yes - beyond competative target shooting I don't actually see any use for a handgun. As far as I'm aware handgun hunting isn't big (if it even exists) in the UK and we don't have the big dangerous game that could be used for carrying a handgun on hikes etc.

No, there is and never has been handgun hunting in the UK, but as we haven’t had handguns for over a decade that’s not relevant. There’s no living quarry you can shoot with an air pistol, so their use is for target shooting only.

However, target shooting involves informal ‘fun’ target shooting at home as well as formalised competition based stuff at clubs. The vast majority if air pistol owners use their pistols responsibly and in a socially acceptable manner at home.

 

[Thats probably pretty much from my own lack of experience in the farming world. I assumed that a shotgun would be the weapon of choice for getting rid of vermin? If not I would happily extend my original to cover rimfire longarms. The only use I can see for anything of a larger calibre than about a .22 lr would be in something like deer culling which is so episodic that having a gun stored on club premises for most of the year wouldn't be a major handicap. Basically long arms cause me less concern than handguns as firstly they are a bit more bulky and obvious if you want to carry one down a street or into a pub and secondly they don't appear to have the same bad boy / gangsta cachet of handgun. (Which annoys me no end as major calibre handgun was my favourite discipline!)

You can’t get near enough to rabbits to control them effectively with a shot gun, and full bore rifles can be used daily for fox control or, indeed, for deer. There’s actually an awful lot of deer shooting going on almost year-round to control pest species in some areas, so the same access to fullbore rifles would be required for many owners.

 

Even if we go back to the pure target guns, I know people who shoot air pistol, smallbore and target rifle to the very highest standards - including world records and commonwealth golds. The people right at the top of the game spend hours, every day, training, and a lot of that includes dry firing and practicing their firing position – sometimes by holding the weapon in the aim while watching TV, to build muscle memory.

 

They can’t do this with the guns in a club 20 or 50 miles away, and without doing that they don’t bring home gold medals.

[AJ sheffield]

22 rimfire rifles can also be effectively moderated whereas shotguns cannot. The little .410s can be moderated a bit but 16, 20 and 12 gauge are useless.

Moderated rimfires are much more suited to rabbit and fox hunting than shotguns or air rifles.

[proudairgun]

i diss agree to this whole thread!

its not people with airguns to whom u should be having a go at its the people who sell then topeople who they no arn't responseable with them

[evildrneil]

i diss agree to this whole thread!

its not people with airguns to whom u should be having a go at its the people who sell then topeople who they no arn't responseable with them

 

And how pray tell are the vendors of airguns supposed to know who is responsible and who isn't? Maybe by responsible owners having some sort of license?

[pk014b7161]

well we have shotguns licensed hand pistol,s banned & it hasn,t made any difference to gun crime

[evildrneil]

That’s a little bit like saying your kids have to go to a sports ground to play with their bat and ball when they could play in the garden. Don’t they have to start somewhere?

 

Not really - there is a world of difference between a bat and ball and a weapon! If someone is going to start with weapons isn't it more reasonable that they are in a regulated area where correct firearms safety and procedures will be stressed?

 

No, there is and never has been handgun hunting in the UK, but as we haven’t had handguns for over a decade that’s not relevant. There’s no living quarry you can shoot with an air pistol, so their use is for target shooting only. However, target shooting involves informal ‘fun’ target shooting at home as well as formalised competition based stuff at clubs. The vast majority if air pistol owners use their pistols responsibly and in a socially acceptable manner at home.

 

I shot competitively and for enjoyment for many years without a handgun of my own. There is no requirement to actually own a firearm let alone hold it in your own house in order to use it competitively. As to the vast majority of of air pistol owners using their pistols in a responsible and socially acceptable manner, the same could be said of other pistols but it didn't stop them being banned when one user was irresponsible and socially unacceptable - not to mention homicidal. Isn't it better for handgunners to suffer the very minor inconvenience of being restricted to registered ranges rather than having hand guns banned?

 

You can’t get near enough to rabbits to control them effectively with a shot gun, and full bore rifles can be used daily for fox control or, indeed, for deer. There’s actually an awful lot of deer shooting going on almost year-round to control pest species in some areas, so the same access to fullbore rifles would be required for many owners.

 

I would disagree here. A smallbore rifle would be more than adequate to take down any vermin found in the UK (apart from deer) especially if you load .22 stinger or similar. I was under the impression that deer culling and stalking talk place in very restricted seasons which would remove the need for instant access to a fullbore weapon.

 

Even if we go back to the pure target guns, I know people who shoot air pistol, smallbore and target rifle to the very highest standards - including world records and commonwealth golds. The people right at the top of the game spend hours, every day, training, and a lot of that includes dry firing and practicing their firing position – sometimes by holding the weapon in the aim while watching TV, to build muscle memory.

 

They can’t do this with the guns in a club 20 or 50 miles away, and without doing that they don’t bring home gold medals.

 

If they are dry firing and holding the weapon at the aim position then there is no need for an real weapon - a correctly weighted fascimilie would be quite adequate. In fact it may even be beneficial as an over-weighted model could be used to build up strength and muscle endurance. As to the not bringing home medals I don't think that stands up to scrutiny. How many high class swimmers do you know with an Olympic sized swimming pool in their house yet they manage to bring back medals.

[pk014b7161]

there must be thousands of air weapons about with sensible owners the non sensible owners are the problem why must the many always have to suffer for the few

[TimeTravelle]

Accepted. I have shot 90 ft/lbs air rifles and they still cannot compete against 22 long rifle for foxes and such. Better to keep these small bore rifles at home.

 

I don't think FAC Air should ever be used against foxes ... .22lr or .223 only.

[Dungbeetle]

Not really - there is a world of difference between a bat and ball and a weapon! If someone is going to start with weapons isn't it more reasonable that they are in a regulated area where correct firearms safety and procedures will be stressed? .

The trouble is, such restriction would mean that far, far fewer people would ever have access to guns and therefore would not take up the sport.

 

I shot competitively and for enjoyment for many years without a handgun of my own. There is no requirement to actually own a firearm let alone hold it in your own house in order to use it competitively. As to the vast majority of of air pistol owners using their pistols in a responsible and socially acceptable manner, the same could be said of other pistols but it didn't stop them being banned when one user was irresponsible and socially unacceptable - not to mention homicidal. Isn't it better for handgunners to suffer the very minor inconvenience of being restricted to registered ranges rather than having hand guns banned? .

The inconvenience is not minor if people are unable to travel to clubs, or can only do so infrequently. For most, it would mean an end to their hobby.

Handguns were not banned because the law was lax. Strathclyde Police had failed to apply existing laws which would have prevented Dunblane; the ban was a knee-jerk to appease baying do-gooders.

 

As for not needing to own a gun, I cannot disagree more strongly. Some clubs do provide pool guns for people to use, but they will not do so for everybody, and they’re not going to provide every punter with up to £5000 worth of weapon, which must be exclusively hand-built and fitted to the individual. That’s not true in every discipline as I’m sure you know, but in some you must know that without such exclusive equipment, our competitors would not be able to compete in the international circuits.

I answer more of your point on not needing a gun at home in my last paragraph.

 

I would disagree here. A smallbore rifle would be more than adequate to take down any vermin found in the UK (apart from deer) especially if you load .22 stinger or similar. I was under the impression that deer culling and stalking talk place in very restricted seasons which would remove the need for instant access to a fullbore weapon. .

The Police would be reluctant in many constabularies to issue a .22RF just for fox, because they recommend small centre fire cartridges from 17HMR up to 240. 223 and 222 swift are popular for fox – fox are smart, and often don’t let you get within 100yards which is about as far out as I’d want to engage one with rimfire. With centrefire, a competent shot can take them at over 200 yards consistently.

 

If they are dry firing and holding the weapon at the aim position then there is no need for an real weapon - a correctly weighted fascimilie would be quite adequate. In fact it may even be beneficial as an over-weighted model could be used to build up strength and muscle endurance. As to the not bringing home medals I don't think that stands up to scrutiny. How many high class swimmers do you know with an Olympic sized swimming pool in their house yet they manage to bring back medals.

The difference is that their competitors also don’t have an Olympic sized pool, but do have their guns at home to train.

 

While a facsimile might be useful, at the very top end of competition, the difference between two theoretically identical weapons is immense. I have been representing GB since 1996, in more than once discipline, and for me (and my discipline) dry training doesn’t work well, but for some of the air pistol shooters, it is essential. I’ve discussed this with a colleague who holds commonwealth golds, and in his branch of the sport he is adamant that without dry training at home with his pistol he would not have the medals; he can’t spend every evening travelling to a club, and having to do so would not be fair when his competitors are not similarly restricted.

[Dungbeetle]

I don't think FAC Air should ever be used against foxes ... .22lr or .223 only.

Agreed. 22lr is limited realistically to a hundred yards or so, longer shots are possible but a bit irresponsible. I would take fox at under 100yds with .22RF, but prefer centre fire.

 

The energy bleed on pellets, even from a 90ftlb air gun, is so bad that by 100 yards the pellet's energy would be down to perhaps 25ftlb, though better if it's a .25.

 

The waisted design of pellets is vital to reduce drag against the barrel wall and to capitalise on the limited pressure available to discharge them, but horrendous for ballistic efficiency. A typical 12ftlb .22 pellet is down to 6 ftlb by 50yds, and .177 is down to 3ftlb by that distance.